Alex Salmond: A second Scottish referendum is inevitible

lovelyhead · 16 Oct 2015 at 12:50

Moses said:
What would change after a few years?

Don't know. I said it might have been a struggle. Might not have been. We could have been poor. We might have been rich. We probably would have been just fine. Who knows. It's all speculation.

At the very least we would have been free.

BuffetSlayer · 16 Oct 2015 at 13:09

[FnG]magnolia;28690006 said:
Are you interested, capable and/or willing to answer any of my questions?

I wouldn't hold your breath, I have been waiting since post #1585.

Elixir · 16 Oct 2015 at 13:37

lovelyhead said:
Don't know. I said it might have been a struggle. Might not have been. We could have been poor. We might have been rich. We probably would have been just fine. Who knows. It's all speculation.

At the very least we would have been free.

Then you realise that being "free" (whatever that means) doesn't actually fix whatever problems you've been blaming on Westminster, especially not with the decreased financial ability to fix them.

Quick, talk about that one irrelevant Wings article again like you do every time people say/ask things you have no response to!

lovelyhead · 16 Oct 2015 at 13:40

Elixir said:
Then you realise that being "free" (whatever that means) doesn't actually fix whatever problems you've been blaming on Westminster, especially not with the decreased financial ability to fix them.

Quick, talk about that one irrelevant Wings article again like you do every time people say/ask things you have no response to!

Of course not. But at least any problems we might have are ours to solve. Currently there are problems we have but are powerless to tackle.

Your second sentence makes you sound a bit daft.

Schlong&Stable · 16 Oct 2015 at 13:52

lovelyhead said:
At the very least we would have been free.

In what sense would you be free? :confused:

You'd still have governments you didn't vote for, plus the EU in which Scotland would have negligible weight.

lovelyhead · 16 Oct 2015 at 13:52

Thompson_NCL said:
In what sense would you be free? You'd still have governments you didn't vote for, plus the EU in which Scotland would have negligible weight.

Free from Westminster rule.

Elixir · 16 Oct 2015 at 14:55

lovelyhead said:
Currently there are problems we have but are powerless to tackle.

Examples please? You're regressing into a FREEEEEDUUUUUM style rhetoric now, lots of "we'd be free" soundbites but no actual substance.

Schlong&Stable · 16 Oct 2015 at 15:18

lovelyhead said:
Free from Westminster rule.

How will changing Westminster (where Scottish MP's sit) for Holyrood increase your personal liberty?

Shampoo · 16 Oct 2015 at 15:19

lovelyhead said:
Free from Westminster rule.

Better the devil you know than dancing to the tune of an EU Commissioner.

Elixir · 16 Oct 2015 at 15:21

Shampoo said:
Better the devil you know than dancing to the tune of an EU Commissioner.

Haven't you heard? We'd be in the EU but we'd be telling them what to do! Because Scotland and freedum!

lovelyhead · 16 Oct 2015 at 15:22

Elixir said:
Examples please? You're regressing into a FREEEEEDUUUUUM style rhetoric now, lots of "we'd be free" soundbites but no actual substance.

We would have control over benefits and social security. Allowing us to get rid of the bedroom tax for starters.

We would have control over defence. Getting rid of trident.

We would have control over Foreign policy. We would no longer have to be involved in illegal wars.

We would have control over employment laws. We would be able to make illegal, things like zero hour contracts for instance.

We would have control over broadcasting. No longer would our national broadcaster be England centric and also massively pro UK.

Those are just the tip of the iceberg.

Shampoo said:
Better the devil you know than dancing to the tune of an EU Commissioner.

We currently dance to the tune of Westminster + the EU.

After independence we would only have the EU rules (assuming we rejoin).

Any way you look at it we would have more control over our destiny.

Elixir said:
Haven't you heard? We'd be in the EU but we'd be telling them what to do! Because Scotland and freedum!

You are just making your self sound stupid.

Mark3h · 16 Oct 2015 at 15:24

So you would Trade "Westminster rule", of which you have more home rule than both Northern Ireland and Wales combined, join the EU and then have even less of a say than you do now?

For the most part, this push for independance really does boil down to nothing less than "Up the English". Truthfully, people as blinkered and as full of zeal as yourself lovelyhead in the long run, are the best campaign the No supporters could ever hope for.

So blindly wanting independance at any cost, no matter the damage it causes to those around you who do not want the same thing.

lovelyhead · 16 Oct 2015 at 15:29

Mark3h said:
So you would Trade "Westminster rule", of which you have more home rule than both Northern Ireland and Wales combined, join the EU and then have even less of a say than you do now?

For the most part, this push for independance really does boil down to nothing less than "Up the English". Truthfully, people as blinkered and as full of zeal as yourself lovelyhead in the long run, are the best campaign the No supporters could ever hope for.

So blindly wanting independance at any cost, no matter the damage it causes to those around you who do not want the same thing.

See my previous posts.

Werewolf · 16 Oct 2015 at 15:29

Shampoo said:
Better the devil you know than dancing to the tune of an EU Commissioner.

Ah but Scotland will have so much more power and say so as a new member of the EU with one of the smallest population bases, than it does in Westminster where it has 1/7th of the politicians for 1/10th of the population.

lovelyhead · 16 Oct 2015 at 15:31

Werewolf said:
Ah but Scotland will have so much more power and say so as a new member of the EU with one of the smallest population bases, than it does in Westminster where it has 1/7th of the politicians for 1/10th of the population.

Is that what you think?

Muz333 · 16 Oct 2015 at 15:35

lovelyhead said:
We would have control over benefits and social security. Allowing us to get rid of the bedroom tax for starters.

Sure, we could increase benefits but with that we'd have to increase taxes to fund it somehow.

lovelyhead said:
We would have control over defence. Getting rid of trident.

We could also be a small nobody country with no defence. Of course if we increased our strength we'd also have to take that money from somewhere.

lovelyhead said:
We would have control over Foreign policy. We would no longer have to be involved in illegal wars.

Like it or not we rely quite a lot on our connection to the USA and other countries. Without helping with foreign policy we'd lose a lot of our friends.

lovelyhead said:
We would have control over employment laws. We would be able to make illegal, things like zero hour contracts for instance.

Which the NHS have said they couldn't cope without. Of course, we could offer more funding to the NHS. However the point is we can't spend money everywhere with nowhere to take it from.
If the SNP were to follow through on half their policies, which they wouldn't, we'd die of debt.

lovelyhead said:
We would have control over broadcasting. No longer would our national broadcaster be England centric and also massively pro UK.

So rather than having an, admittedly pretty **** BBC, we'd have an even ****ter equivalent where half the shows would probably be in gaelic.

lovelyhead · 16 Oct 2015 at 15:39

Muz333 said:
Sure, we could increase benefits but with that we'd have to increase taxes to fund it somehow.

We could also be a small nobody country with no defence. Of course if we increased our strength we'd also have to take that money from somewhere.

Like it or not we rely quite a lot on our connection to the USA and other countries. Without helping with foreign policy we'd lose a lot of our friends.

Which the NHS have said they couldn't cope without. Of course, we could offer more funding to the NHS. However the point is we can't spend money everywhere with nowhere to take it from.
If the SNP were to follow through on half their policies, which they wouldn't, we'd die of debt.

So rather than having an, admittedly pretty **** BBC, we'd have an even ****ter equivalent where half the shows would probably be in gaelic.

You are painting the worst case scenario to further your argument. I'm not saying everything would be roses and honey. But at least for the most part we would be making our own decisions. I think there is nothing wrong with wanting that.

Mark3h · 16 Oct 2015 at 15:42

Double post. Yay for mobile internet.

Mark3h · 16 Oct 2015 at 15:44

lovelyhead said:
You are painting the worst case scenario to further your argument. I'm not saying everything would be roses and honey. But at least for the most part we would be making our own decisions. I think there is nothing wrong with wanting that.

Except you would have no money to execute those decisions, until mrs merkel swoops in to apply the ball and chain loan.
And the to do list you have to do for the money.
Suddenly they aren't your decisions

Schlong&Stable · 16 Oct 2015 at 15:46

lovelyhead said:
You are painting the worst case scenario to further your argument. I'm not saying everything would be roses and honey. But at least for the most part we would be making our own decisions. I think there is nothing wrong with wanting that.

Those were hardly the worst case scenarios, they were pretty modest.