The really stupid thing is that this whole debacle could have been avoided if Osborne had either brought forward the date for the 'living wage' or just kept tax credits in place until wages rise and they're not needed any more. Problem is he can't do that as he needs to eliminate the deficit as quick as possible as that what he's promised (the fact that it's nether necessary or realistic is another topic).
Assumed £19.00 a week cuts expected in benefits to those that need it the most.
- Thread starter ethan
- Start date
When did they "increase dramatically" exactly?
Tax credits only increased dramatically when (a) they were deliberately increased and (b) the recession hit reducing the amount of well-paid work people were doing. They've hardly trundled out of hand.
I think this is downright disingenuous. It's disingenuous for three reasons: (1) there's absolutely no reason to think that tax credits have played any role at all in reducing wages overall so there's no reason to think that their withdrawal would increase wages in any way; (2) increasing wages would reduce the tax credit bill anyway and there's no inherent dichotomy between raising wages and continuing to pay tax credits so why not do both and let the rising wage bill deal with tax credits over time?; and (3) it implies that everyone on tax credits is paid the minimum wage - or close to it - and that the minimum wage is mostly paid to people on tax credits when in fact neither of these statements are true.
I support the rise in the minimum wage but, on it's own, it does not do enough to raise wages in this country and it doesn't substitute for cutting tax credits.
Even business leaders are admitting that tax credits allow them to pay less. The market dictates what a job is worth; if the government pays part of that wage then business pays less by an equal amount.
There have been articles written by business people admitted this; they aren't trying to hide it.
If work doesn't pay the bills anymore but being on full time benefits do, i'd expect people to either do that or move to places like Australia or Canada where work does pay..
A few years ago i lost a main contract and started using working tax credit, hopefully i wont rely on it once these cuts come in, £1500 PA off my wage will be a struggle..
I'd like to think this causes detrimental affects on the country just to show this Government up for what it is, vile.
A few years ago i lost a main contract and started using working tax credit, hopefully i wont rely on it once these cuts come in, £1500 PA off my wage will be a struggle..
I'd like to think this causes detrimental affects on the country just to show this Government up for what it is, vile.
Why would a poor person with a family relying on tax credits ever vote for the Conservatives? 
I assume she fell for all the 'lets get them scroungers' ********! She obviously wasn't alone, I don't think even the Cons could believe it when the won.
Bit like turkeys voting for Christmas...
I assume she fell for all the 'lets get them scroungers' ********! She obviously wasn't alone, I don't think even the Cons could believe it when the won.
Bit like turkeys voting for Christmas...
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Work harder then.
Soldato
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- Southampton, hopefully not too hot, or too cold
Where has it all gone wrong in the last ~25 years in the UK?
Crazy increase in house buying prices, due to the population increase from ~56 million people to ~64 million people, tied in with not enough extra homes built in this period?
Crazy increase in rent prices, requiring the government to shell out lots of Housing Benefit annually to help out families where their wages have increasingly struggled to meet these price hikes?
The price increase on alcohol and cigarettes, mainly though extra taxation?
Despite the massive increase in the price of petrol and diesel (~40p to ~110p per litre for petrol), too many families have become dependent on cars?
Food price increases on basics, such as bread; milk; coffee etc?
Energy price increases, lining the pockets of the top managers and shareholders, after privatisation?
The Samsung monitor, price fixing mafia?
Crazy increase in house buying prices, due to the population increase from ~56 million people to ~64 million people, tied in with not enough extra homes built in this period?
Crazy increase in rent prices, requiring the government to shell out lots of Housing Benefit annually to help out families where their wages have increasingly struggled to meet these price hikes?
The price increase on alcohol and cigarettes, mainly though extra taxation?
Despite the massive increase in the price of petrol and diesel (~40p to ~110p per litre for petrol), too many families have become dependent on cars?
Food price increases on basics, such as bread; milk; coffee etc?
Energy price increases, lining the pockets of the top managers and shareholders, after privatisation?
The Samsung monitor, price fixing mafia?
Sound advice, thanks..
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the proportion of welfare spending to national income has been the same for 40 years, we are spending more but out income has grown in proportion to spending. they will never say it, what has grown more than the rate of national income is corporate benefits.
Not a good reply to the guy, bed of roses are we.
Why is there no fall in wage growth that coincides with the introduction and increase of tax credits then? If Tax Credits really affect rates of pay then it should be obvious in the wage figures but it isn't; there's no change.
In principle, do you agree with the idea of the state topping up people's wages? It seems most people are against this idea. The main opposition seems to be the timing of the cuts, and not increasing min wage quickly enough.
With people living longer, the biggest social problem on our horizon is people not breeding enough or early enough. Asking the poor to stop breeding if they can't afford it would make our problems a lot worse a generation or two down the line.
The right way forward is to ensure everyone is paid fairly. This government have taken baby steps toward that end, though with some serious caveats; the National Living Wage isn't really high enough, it isn't fair to exclude under 25s and it isn't fair, after acknowledging that people aren't paid enough, to then cut their income in real terms by significant amounts during the transition phase.
Then, of course, there's the small matter of the Prime Minister of this country manipulating the election outcome by telling what has turned out to be a blatant lie. Admittedly, it was a rather transparent one, but clearly people believed him when he said that the Tory Party would not cut tax credits. Had he been honest about this before the election, it would have been a red line for more than a few voters.
Tax credits were a bad idea brought in by Labour.
Why should I top up the wage of someone who earns X amount whilst I work full time getting by.
Sorry all this stupid system has done has allowed employers to keep wages down, cut hrs etc etc.
It needs scrapping and if your current job doing 20hrs a week is not enough for you to get by either.
Grow your own food or get another job,
Why should I top up the wage of someone who earns X amount whilst I work full time getting by.
Sorry all this stupid system has done has allowed employers to keep wages down, cut hrs etc etc.
It needs scrapping and if your current job doing 20hrs a week is not enough for you to get by either.
Grow your own food or get another job,
Soldato
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- Nottingham
Tax credits was a terrible idea, even when I had to depend on them myself. I always wondered why wages just didn't match the suited work market. It's pushed wages down in labour markets, ironically the ones Labour were meant to protect. The unions were pitiful at the time.
I agree they need to go, but the transition is being handled so wrong it may force people out of work rather than making it pay.
I would consider myself more on the side of Conservative, but how this is being done is totally wrong. As a service industrial nation, we need a strong work force that is reasonably paid and one that can support home life. Without a steady income, family values start going out of the window.
Phase out tax credits but in smaller doses and try rattle away the EU influence bit by bit.
I agree they need to go, but the transition is being handled so wrong it may force people out of work rather than making it pay.
I would consider myself more on the side of Conservative, but how this is being done is totally wrong. As a service industrial nation, we need a strong work force that is reasonably paid and one that can support home life. Without a steady income, family values start going out of the window.
Phase out tax credits but in smaller doses and try rattle away the EU influence bit by bit.
Soldato
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Time and time again this pops up, the rental/housing market is to blame. Address these issues (200k houses over 5 years is not addressing them) and you won't need to increase the minimum wage.
When a full time job can't cover the rent alone of a family home without government handouts then something is seriously broken.
When a full time job can't cover the rent alone of a family home without government handouts then something is seriously broken.
If you think it’s NOT right for members to make points regarding the opening post then it is for consideration that YOU should start a new thread along the lines of: Only post on this thread matters regarding “………………………..”
Surely if the opening post covers many points members have the right to respond to them, as I did?
Soldato
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Truth.
Time and time again this issue is skated over, my town is full, and I mean full of landlords making thousands on housing benefits from tenants, how on earth does that make sense?
People keep moaning at the poor saying "work harder", "get more qualifications" etc, ok, I'll work harder and do the same as these landlords because it seems to be a money pot of gold that is subsidized from the government these days, then I'll gain respect from my pears as a hard working 'Property developer', as I expand like I know other well known landlords in my area I'll probably become friends with local councilors and politicians......., it's all ****ing corrupt seriously, living in a small town and working with influential people you can see as clear as day what goes on.
There needs to be a radical rethink on how to address the cost of living and imo reducing the cost of housing/rent is the answer to a lot of problems, nobody on a full time minimum pay job should need benefits but in a lot of areas those living in private rental accommodations (which are increasing) are often paying out 70/80 plus percent of their total income in rent, that is ridiculous.
No amount of benefit cutting is going to solve this issue, neither is increasing the minimum wage, which my employer has already said he will be cutting hours and staff due to it rise in April next year.