Try to penetrate their "vagina" and you'd soon find out though.
Germaine Greer on Transexuality
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Try to penetrate their "vagina" and you'd soon find out though.
you're a bit of both then - you've got a woman's body and a male brain that wants to be female
that is probably as far as a trans person could go in future... these days they can take hormones and mutilate their genitals at best...
I've said it on here, I don't really care about what level you have to go to to define them as women, they are not,they are just men who look like women.
It's not something I have an issue with though, people are free to butcher themselves in what ever way they like if it makes them happy.
It's like those guys who fly off to Thailand to nail lady boys saying they don't like men.
Well, you do, because that's what you are pounding right now.
Associate
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Prejudice and ignorance.
What's equally weird is how much feminists like Greer are ridiculed, berated and their views dismissed as being pure unadulterated drivel by the vast majority of people on here.... Until they say something that suits their bigotry and then the radfem love-in is in full swing.
Reminds me of the migrant thread which has thousands of replies. Yet a thread about a white terrorist sinks quickly and is full of excuses and mitigation for race crimes.
Stay classy GD, stay classy.
Soldato
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Psychological? You realize that's what we was saying about Gay's not so long ago? How to you explain Gay people being attracted to the opposite sex? What makes them that way inclined? And also your definition of Gender is based purely on genitalia?
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It's irrelevant in the conversation what his definition is, it also doesn't matter to you, me or the man next door.
If you define it differently that's great and that's all that matters.
Why do you assume it is just one surgery that is singled out?
Have you heard of 'FGM' for example, aka 'Female Genital Mutilation' - which involves cutting off various parts of the female genitalia?
Yes cutting a penis and turning it into a crude vagina can easily fall under the definition of 'mutilation'.
Problems usually arise when people see things as a false dichotomy.
Sex in most cases (hermaphrodites do add complexity to this, adding weight to my point) is only binary to a degree, psychologically & behaviourally it isn't so much so.
Opposing gender identification isn't linked to biological birth & is likely the result of a mismatch between sexual organs & the brain. Not all women can give birth, regardless of birth sex (which makes that point less valid also). The intricacies of it, I don't know - I naturally identify with my birth sex & the most common gender match for it so don't feel I can really condemn, oppose or disregard the views of those who don't. All we should do is treat the situation with a degree of maturity & empathy.
The flagrant disregard the emotional well-being of people in this situation I find far more of a social issue than the gender identity of any person.
If a person dislikes earrings they could define the act of having pierced ears as mutilation. FGM is different because it's put upon a child in almost all cases without the capacity of consent.
Sex in most cases (hermaphrodites do add complexity to this, adding weight to my point) is only binary to a degree, psychologically & behaviourally it isn't so much so.
Opposing gender identification isn't linked to biological birth & is likely the result of a mismatch between sexual organs & the brain. Not all women can give birth, regardless of birth sex (which makes that point less valid also). The intricacies of it, I don't know - I naturally identify with my birth sex & the most common gender match for it so don't feel I can really condemn, oppose or disregard the views of those who don't. All we should do is treat the situation with a degree of maturity & empathy.
The flagrant disregard the emotional well-being of people in this situation I find far more of a social issue than the gender identity of any person.
The common definition is violence or disfiguring, as to disfigure is to spoil & spoil being a subjective evaluation makes the classification somewhat redundant.
If a person dislikes earrings they could define the act of having pierced ears as mutilation. FGM is different because it's put upon a child in almost all cases without the capacity of consent.
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No 'mutilation' is commonly used - for example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genital_modification_and_mutilation
that has to be balanced with the well being of others too
for example a male who self identifies as female being allowed access to feamle changing rooms or womens refuges
Soldato
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How can it possibly not be a better option to use the facilities of the gender you identify with? And how in the world does that affect anyone else but yourself?
might be better for the person who believes they are that gender - might not be so comfortable for others - quite simple really
do teenage girls want to share a changing room with a teenage boy who self identifies as a girl? Maybe some are progressive and happy with it, maybe others are not so comfortable. I'm not sure that everyone is going to change to accommodate the sensibilities of a few individuals who may or may not be suffering from mental illness.
we'll probably have to switch to unisex facilities and cubicals in future
do teenage girls want to share a changing room with a teenage boy who self identifies as a girl? Maybe some are progressive and happy with it, maybe others are not so comfortable. I'm not sure that everyone is going to change to accommodate the sensibilities of a few individuals who may or may not be suffering from mental illness.
we'll probably have to switch to unisex facilities and cubicals in future
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There are a couple of reasons I find Greer's position quite funny ...
My theory why Greer has a problem with male to female sex changes runs something like this. Greer has spent most of her life treating men as the enemy of women to some degree, women are virtuous and oppressed, men are bigots and oppressors. Male to female transgender presents her with her mortal enemy, men, claiming to be everything she believes in i.e. women. She cannot stand to afford the same respect that she has for women to a transgender woman - in her mind it would mean men can be as virtuous as she believes women are. Consequently her head explodes ...
The second reason I find this funny is because she has spent her life demonising men, surrounded by other women demonising men, and now she is getting a taste of her own medicine - from the same gender McCarthyists she thought only ever attacked other people.
My theory why Greer has a problem with male to female sex changes runs something like this. Greer has spent most of her life treating men as the enemy of women to some degree, women are virtuous and oppressed, men are bigots and oppressors. Male to female transgender presents her with her mortal enemy, men, claiming to be everything she believes in i.e. women. She cannot stand to afford the same respect that she has for women to a transgender woman - in her mind it would mean men can be as virtuous as she believes women are. Consequently her head explodes ...
The second reason I find this funny is because she has spent her life demonising men, surrounded by other women demonising men, and now she is getting a taste of her own medicine - from the same gender McCarthyists she thought only ever attacked other people.
probably something like that - there is certainly a portion of the feminist community that are anti-trans... there is obviously a portion that are anti men and they tend not to accept that someone who has 'lived as a man' can ever truly be a woman.... because patriarchy etc...
Yes, it's a shame in general organs appear as binary
Physiological is far from that. I have a lot what would be probably defined as female personality traits if you had to put them into male or female
Even genetically, just having that Y chromosome says little about what is on it. A chromosome is often I think seen as a unit rather than a collection of units
Any one can be faulty
Physiological is far from that. I have a lot what would be probably defined as female personality traits if you had to put them into male or female
Even genetically, just having that Y chromosome says little about what is on it. A chromosome is often I think seen as a unit rather than a collection of units
Any one can be faulty
Caporegime
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I'll bite just on this one comment, are you saying that everyone who posts in a thread about immigration is automatically racist? Can you link to a thread in which terrorism by a white person has gone almost ignored?
Can you see the difference between lets say someone bombing a house in a suicide bomb which has short term consequences to a few people and literally can't happen again with the bomber dead, and the influx of hundreds of thousands of people into the country, regardless of race, who need housing, food, jobs which has an impact(negative or positive) on literally millions of people around them? YOu can't even fathom the possible reasons a thread on immigration could potentially have more posts than a thread on a smaller event with no lasting consequences in the same way a thread on a mission to mars could be longer than a thread on a mission to resupply the ISS?
Using a poor argument as reasoning for something else doesn't strengthen any argument.
Either way, you aren't born to be fat, being fat is unhealthy, liposuction is intended to remove fat(and get closer to what would be a normal weight for a person) and removing fat won't have a negative effect on health(directly, bad surgery can, removing fat itself won't). Likewise tonsils and appendix removal surgeries are done when either are having a negative health effect and when removal improves health directly. Leaving them in when infected is unhealthy while removing them is a complete cure and has no negative effect.
Sorry but removing testicles has a monumental life changing health altering effect. They aren't removed when sick or the cause of ill health, they are removed when healthy inducing a life long worse state of health. Without hormone replacement, something a male who loses a testicle to an accident or ill health would need, removing testicles is inherently bad for health. It requires constant medical attention after surgery to keep healthy hormone levels. A large change in hormone levels has wide sweeping massive effects on health, all negative, many very bad.
Comparing these and calling people who class it differently as prejudiced or ignorance is itself both prejudiced and ignorant. Sorry but gender reassignment is in no way comparable to removing tonsils, appendix or liposuction, all three have no negative health implications and 2 of the 3 are done specifically to get rid of health problems, the third can be said to as well.
Gender reassignment surgery is done on a healthy body and creates vast health problems.
It's like saying removing a healthy kidney and a sick kidney is the same and we should just rip out someone's kidney for no reason if they ask us to because we'd happily take out a sick kidney.
Soldato
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Jesus christ. It's almost as if, shock horror, there's more to health than the physical condition of your body. There is such a stigma in this country against mental health issues it's ridiculous.
Soldato
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Whether someone can convince you they are a woman or not is irrelevant. Robin Williams was a pretty convincing old lady as Ms Doubtfire, yet no one would argue he was a woman.
I think it's absurd to treat transsexual men as if they are women, they are not women. If their friends etc want to regard them as women, that is fine, I've no problem with that. But society should not be expected to indulge them by pretending they are women. If one of my colleagues goes MtF, I should not get in trouble for addressing them as a man: they ARE a man.
We're now reaching a point in modern society where all common sense is getting thrown out the window in order to make people feel better about themselves. It seems that people being offended or feeling "unsafe" is the worst imaginable crime.