Lords defeat government over tax credits cut

Caporegime
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34631156

The House of Lords has voted to delay cuts to tax credit cuts, having decided against scrapping the changes entirely.
The government lost a vote by 307 votes to 277 on pausing the cuts until an independent assessment of their impact had been carried out.

This puts a big hole in the Chancellor's financial plans for this parliament which relied on 'front loading' benefit cuts i.e. doing them a long time before the next election. It also represents another constitutional crisis as the Lords aren't supposed to vote on financial matters (though it could be argued this is a social matter as well). All in all, it's a bit of a fine mess. I wonder if they'd have reformed the Lords like they should have done in the coalition things would be different?
 
I totally agree with an independent assessment. How much of a real examination have the tories made into how these cuts will affect the lower earners in society.
 
i don't understand why anybody agrees with giving benefits to people who are working - all it does is subsidise business by allowing them to pay reduced wages.

it was a moronic idea from Brown and costs a ridiculous £30 billion.
 
Im sure I read earlier that what might happen is the Queen gets involved to create a load more peers to push his through anyway, might have been the DM or the Independant, not sure.

But going to be an interesting few days that's for sure.

i don't understand why anybody agrees with giving benefits to people who are working - all it does is subsidise business by allowing them to pay reduced wages.

it was a moronic idea from Brown and costs a ridiculous £30 billion.

It's Gideon.
 
So people will continue to net more income than hard working families who receive no government help at all.

I agree with helping those in need. I disagree with people receiving money which makes them better off than those working full time and ending up with less than those playing the system. Point in hand - Someone I used to work with who took home over £2200 a month in tax credits because she chose to only work 16hrs a week because she would be worse off if she worked full time. She was taking more than most peoples take home pay just in tax credits, not to mention whatever else she was in receipt of.

How is this right?
 
So people will continue to net more income than hard working families who receive no government help at all.

I agree with helping those in need. I disagree with people receiving money which makes them better off than those working full time and ending up with less than those playing the system. Point in hand - Someone I used to work with who took home over £2200 a month in tax credits because she chose to only work 16hrs a week because she would be worse off if she worked full time. She was taking more than most peoples take home pay just in tax credits, not to mention whatever else she was in receipt of.

How is this right?

How was she getting that much in tax credits each month?
 
By only working 16 hours a week and claiming she was a single mum. Although I am sure her and her partner lived separately just to play the system.
 
i don't understand why anybody agrees with giving benefits to people who are working - all it does is subsidise business by allowing them to pay reduced wages.

it was a moronic idea from Brown and costs a ridiculous £30 billion.

I think it's perhaps the typically callous way in which the Tories have cut the working tax credits for hard-working families.
 
Someone I used to work with who took home over £2200 a month in tax credits because she chose to only work 16hrs a week

No they didn't.
Hopefully now Osbourne will wind his neck in a bit and take some advice on the matter.
 
And bang, compensation for those affected.Sorry George, 2/10 must try harder:
The government has been dealt a major blow after the House of Lords voted to delay tax credit cuts and to compensate those affected in full.
Peers voted by 289 votes to 272 to provide full financial redress to the millions of recipients affected.
 
So people will continue to net more income than hard working families who receive no government help at all.

I agree with helping those in need. I disagree with people receiving money which makes them better off than those working full time and ending up with less than those playing the system. Point in hand - Someone I used to work with who took home over £2200 a month in tax credits because she chose to only work 16hrs a week because she would be worse off if she worked full time. She was taking more than most peoples take home pay just in tax credits, not to mention whatever else she was in receipt of.

How is this right?

It's not, but neither is robbing people of a much needed lifeline when they can't afford to meet their bills and are unable to make more money due to unavailability of work, hours or child-care.

In situations like the above, that is obviously wrong but the system is not dealing with absolutes. It is affecting people across the scale. The person who you used to work with was clearly abusing the system and that should be addressed. Taking money away from people who won't be able to make the money back (this isn't talking about people who are living far beyond their means via income support) through work and thus struggle to pay bills for the rest of the parliament is hardly fair either.

FWIW, I think from an ideological POV that it's right to cut the tax credits as in an ideal world people should live within their means and work to get what they want.

Pragmatically however, and moreover realistically, our society isn't like that. We are a classist and elitist society masquerading as a meritocracy. Social mobility is dead, workers are underpaid, affordable housing is a joke, and there aren't nearly as many prospects for those on the bottom rungs of society as those looking down like to assume there are. Tax credits for these people have become a vital lifeline, and pulling the carpet from under them is hardly helping anyone. It's punishing those who do try and work and make ends meet but are fighting against an unfair and biased system.

As for the OP, this is a good thing. Anything that postpones this for a proper review is a good thing. Gideon is a disgusting human-being trying to force through these cuts strategically. He claims we need to find the money from elsewhere to balance the books if we don't make these cuts. How about closing the loopholes for corporate tax avoidance? How about scrapping Trident? Why not look at the evidence and see that austerity is purely ideological and not the only solution, nor is it the most effective?

I'm glad the Lords stepped in here. Although I have no doubt there will be a political backlash as they've broken a gentleman's agreement, but it's about time they exercised some prudence. Why else are they there if not to catch and prevent awful things like this being hastily pushed through? For something as wide-reaching and potentially damaging as this, prudence is key. As for the Lords themselves, I find them a peculiar anachronism and believe they would be better to be replaced by experts across British industry and academia than being the current retirement home for ex career politicians that it is.
 
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How many people who lose tax credits are suddenly going to get their wages raised to cover what they have lost?

more like how many are going to work more hours per week - you'll likely see that increase, which is probably a good thing

as for hourly rate increasing, not necessarily - minimum wag going up but there is a lag

I don't see the changes as being particularly bad and they are needed
 
more like how many are going to work more hours per week - you'll likely see that increase, which is probably a good thing

as for hourly rate increasing, not necessarily - minimum wag going up but there is a lag

I don't see the changes as being particularly bad and they are needed

Many people will already be on 40 hours a week. When you have a family it is quite difficult to do more. Particularly for single parents.
 
Isn't the bigger issue the Lords overruling the government which was voted in? I can't think of other time in when the upper chamber blocked the will of parliament like this.
 
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