Is piracy dying?

Craig321 said:
Legal, maybe, but still dodgy as hell. There's no way games on G2A etc. can be that cheap and not have something dodgy going on, surely?
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They're not dodgy based solely on the virtue of their price.

You can get Origin games directly from EA for less than half price by buying from say, their Mexican site.

There's nothing illegal about that, whether you're sticking to their terms and conditions or not. Ignoring the Ts&Cs of a private company isn't illegal.

I think some people confuse illegal with "wrong".
 
SC0TTRS said:
What a ridiculous statement! You can't be serious?
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It's a well-known fact that some keys on these grey market sites are bought with stolen credit card details.

Talking about G2A, CDKeys, etc.

As for buying Russian keys via VPN (which is a different issue), I don't think you can claim the moral high ground if you are using a VPN (etc) to avoid paying the asking price in your country.

We earn much more than Russians do; we are not automatically entitled to buy digital goods at Russian prices. The fact that you have to jump through technical hoops to even make it possible should say something.

If you want to have the moral high ground, buy from an approved seller in your own country.
 
EA and the like are price gouging anyway, so nor harm in the consumer fighting back by finding the cheapest route to buy the game. Its certainly not illegal or dodgy.
 
spoffle said:
They're not dodgy based solely on the virtue of their price.

You can get Origin games directly from EA for less than half price by buying from say, their Mexican site.

There's nothing illegal about that, whether you're sticking to their terms and conditions or not. Ignoring the Ts&Cs of a private company isn't illegal.

I think some people confuse illegal with "wrong".
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I didn't say they were illegal, just that they're dodgy as hell. Having to use a VPN or ignoring T&Cs or going round another way is dodgy no matter which way you look at it. Dodgy doesn't mean illegal.
 
Burned_Alive said:
EA and the like are price gouging anyway, so nor harm in the consumer fighting back by finding the cheapest route to buy the game. Its certainly not illegal or dodgy.
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My point is that G2A and CDKeys /can/ and /are/ selling keys obtained fraudulently. You have no way to tell if the key you just bought was acquired legally. None at all.

This seems to be being ignored by everyone.
 
FoxEye said:
It's a well-known fact that some keys on these grey market sites are bought with stolen credit card details.

Talking about G2A, CDKeys, etc.

As for buying Russian keys via VPN (which is a different issue), I don't think you can claim the moral high ground if you are using a VPN (etc) to avoid paying the asking price in your country.

We earn much more than Russians do; we are not automatically entitled to buy digital goods at Russian prices. The fact that you have to jump through technical hoops to even make it possible should say something.

If you want to have the moral high ground, buy from an approved seller in your own country.
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It isn't a well known fact, it's something that's speculated about. Ubisoft made that claim about FarCry 4 keys because they didn't like people being able to get them cheaper from other places.

Why are you talking about morals? You made the claim that they weren't legal, they are, stop trying to obfuscate what you've been saying.
 
FoxEye said:
It's a well-known fact that some keys on these grey market sites are bought with stolen credit card details.

Talking about G2A, CDKeys, etc.

As for buying Russian keys via VPN (which is a different issue), I don't think you can claim the moral high ground if you are using a VPN (etc) to avoid paying the asking price in your country.

We earn much more than Russians do; we are not automatically entitled to buy digital goods at Russian prices. The fact that you have to jump through technical hoops to even make it possible should say something.

If you want to have the moral high ground, buy from an approved seller in your own country.
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But the company CAN claim the moral high-ground for charging 2-10 times as much per region?

That's called price gouging... funnily enough, it's actually illegal

You have your mind a little bit wrongly wired :p
 
Craig321 said:
I didn't say they were illegal, just that they're dodgy as hell. Having to use a VPN or ignoring T&Cs or going round another way is dodgy no matter which way you look at it. Dodgy doesn't mean illegal.
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No, it doesn't but it doesn't mean they're dodgy as hell either.

As I said, some of these cheap keys or games are direct from the publisher/developer just in another territory.

There is precisely nothing dodgy about that.
 
crinkleshoes said:
But the company CAN claim the moral high-ground for charging 2-10 times as much per region?

You have your mind a little bit wrongly wired :p
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No actually I often rail against the high prices of movie rentals, etc.

Two wrongs however don't make a right.

Wait a couple months and Steam/GOG prices normally come down to the G2A/CDKeys launch price anyhow.

The only thing you gain with G2A/CDKeys is getting the game earlier. And for that you take the chance that you are supporting criminals and /not/ supporting the content creator.
 
FoxEye said:
No actually I often rail against the high prices of movie rentals, etc.

Two wrongs however don't make a right.

Wait a couple months and Steam/GOG prices normally come down to the G2A/CDKeys launch price anyhow.

The only thing you gain with G2A/CDKeys is getting the game earlier. And for that you take the chance that you are supporting criminals and /not/ supporting the content creator.
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Yeah, no.

Firstly it's not wrong, and secondly as I've been saying I can go and buy games from EA's Mexican site for less than half price. Why is that "wrong"?
 
I wouldn't really say it's dying at all, sure it takes a little bit longer to crack some games but I think that it's more than alive. I guess more so for TV VS Video games!
 
spoffle said:
Yeah, no.

Firstly it's not wrong, and secondly as I've been saying I can go and buy games from EA's Mexican site for less than half price. Why is that "wrong"?
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Does buying from another country still mean we pay tax on them? Cause if not then wouldn't that be illegal for tax avoidance?

(genuine question)
 
Spacedeck said:
Does buying from another country still mean we pay tax on them? Cause if not then wouldn't that be illegal for tax avoidance?

(genuine question)
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No we wouldn't pay tax on it but that doesn't mean buying the game is illegal.

It's also not tax avoidance, the same way if you import something and it doesn't get caught and taxed.
 
spoffle said:
Yeah, no.
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http://www.polygon.com/2015/2/9/800...ose-mysteriously-cheap-gray-market-game-codes

Read this.

A single investigation by Polygon to try to track down the source of a game code they bought on G2A. They couldn't, because one of the links in the chain flat out lied to them where he'd got the code.

If you think all the keys on places like G2A or CDKeys are legit, you are intentionally deluding yourself to make yourself feel better.

e: Also most devs when asked about it say they do not want people buying from the grey market, as it means they don't get paid properly. So you're screwing the devs at the end of the day.

spoffle said:
It's also not tax avoidance, the same way if you import something and it doesn't get caught and taxed.
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You use words like "don't get caught", yet you keep saying there's no wrong-doing. Yeah, I think we all know what's up.
 
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FoxEye said:
http://www.polygon.com/2015/2/9/800...ose-mysteriously-cheap-gray-market-game-codes

Read this.

A single investigation by Polygon to try to track down the source of a game code they bought on G2A. They couldn't, because one of the links in the chain flat out lied to them where he'd got the code.

If you think all the keys on places like G2A or CDKeys are legit, you are intentionally deluding yourself to make yourself feel better.

e: Also most devs when asked about it say they do not want people buying from the grey market, as it means they don't get paid properly. So you're screwing the devs at the end of the day.
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They couldn't.

That says it all. That doesn't mean they were bought with stolen credit cards.

I couldn't expect many businesses to be very open about where they get their stock from.

The guy who owns my local Chinese takeaway is extremely vague when asked what's in some of their meals. He MUST be putting rat poison in them!

As for the devs, well of course they're going to say that. They want to you buy their games from whatever place generates the highest revenue for them.

As I keep saying, you can buy games straight from EA on their Mexican Origin site. They get all the money, they're just charging less. Why is that wrong?
 
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spoffle said:
As I keep saying, you can buy games straight from EA on their Mexican Origin site. They get all the money, they're just charging less. Why is that wrong?
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I wasn't aware that people felt the need to lie about things when they were 100% above board. I'm /sure/ the guy lied about where he got the game because he was just embarrassed about how absolutely legal it all was.

And I'm sure Ubisoft were wrong to assert that some of the keys bought on G2A were bought using stolen credit cards. I'm sure they just made that up to be evil, because they love bad publicity.

And I'm positive that games being sold for <30% of their retail value are just as legal as the full RRP versions. I'm sure nothing at all dodgy is going on.

And of course developers will say they need to get paid. They're lying tho! None of them need money to keep producing games, so we should keep paying <10% of the RRP on release day! Hey, if they stole their food they wouldn't need the money we aren't giving them!

We should also all re-arrange our taxes legally so that we don't pay tax. Nobody will be hurt by that. Money is something that I need, but nobody else really needs it, do they? So I'll keep my money and just take everything I want at prices *I* want to pay, even if I end up bankrupting the producer.

Let me ask you, if *everyone* used grey markets to buy their games, how many devs do you think we'd lose to bankruptcy? I'm guessing most of them. The only reason they aren't going under is because some people are buying at the price they want you to pay. If everybody gave them 70-90% less for their games, they'd just stop making them. You are part of the problem.

As for Origin Mexico, I'm not sure what their T&C's are. But if you aren't forced to use a VPN then maybe they don't have a problem with it.

But for other services, like Steam, you do have to use a VPN, and "getting caught" as you put it, can lead to a ban. Obviously they aren't intending people buy games cheaper through a VPN.
 
I get nowTV free with my phone contract & Instant Video with my prime membership & I pay for netflix.

Between these three I can get pretty much anything I need, yes occasionally I do have to wait - but the wait is no longer so bad that I'll just pirate for convenience. Since the subs market for streaming has developed & steam/Origin offer refunds I've not pirated anything at all - music I can just stream off youtube, prime music & all new music is **** anyway. :p
 
I know the discussion has moved on, but my tuppence is piracy is dying, but only proportionally to the amount of regular internet users, which is rising.

I used to pirate games, thanks to Steam, I no longer do. I can buy everything in one place, no messing. I get what I want, at a competitive price done. If I purchace elsewhere, I can STILL register in "my" Steam.

TV shows and moves, still get downloaded, because I can't just buy them in one place, or get a HD digital version, or I need another account.
I tried to buy a season of South Park the other day - By the time Zavvi had sent the email CONFIRMING my account creation, I'd managed to find-download-make a cuppa- and begin watching the whole series via a torrent. Incomparable.

If there's too many hoops to jump through to get the content I want legally - I won't.
 
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