What happens when a woman is not comfortable sharing a bathroom with a man, or vice versa?
Germaine Greer on Transexuality
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What happens when a woman is not comfortable sharing a bathroom with a man, or vice versa?
Associate
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If there's a man in the bathroom then she has every right to be concerned, and should express that to the relevant people as the man is most likely there for nefarious reasons. If there's a trans woman in the bathroom then she has no reason to be concerned, as she's sharing a bathroom with another woman and they're all in there for the same reason, to use the bathroom.
I know of a couple of transexuals who work for the same company I do, at different sites. There was a little bother with which toilet they should use when they were pre-op. The toilets are open to customers, which was what complicated matters. Had they been for staff only, it wouldn't have been an issue. It wasn't a major issue, just something that got idly mentioned at work as a thing of passing minor interest.
As for transvestites, well, that's pretty routine where I work. Some of our regular customers are TVs. Sometimes they come in dressed as a man, sometimes as a woman. I have yet to see anyone care, and that's including hundreds of regular customers aged from 18 to 96. There are nice things about my workplace.
If the former, it's taken as a serious problem and the man is seen as a serious offender, probably deserving to be jailed or beaten.
If the latter, it isn't and the woman isn't.
The question is whether or not it should be. In some times and places, a "black" person in a "whites" only bathroom would have been taken as a serious problem. Should it be? If so, why? If not, why not? What makes it so different to a man in a women only bathroom?
I think it's all just a matter of cultural norms and that if a person is uncomfortable because a person with the "wrong" biological characteristics is using the same bathroom that's their problem, not the other person's problem.
Do you feel that segregation by gender or sex is always wrong and just as silly as segregation by race?
For example if someone set up a rape counselling group for women or a battered women's shelter? Or is it just say changing rooms and toilets?
For example if someone set up a rape counselling group for women or a battered women's shelter? Or is it just say changing rooms and toilets?
I find this disturbing.
In your opinion. You seem to be oblivious to the fact that not everyone accepts a trans woman as a woman. To some people it's a man in women's clothes and implants.
You are imposing "they are definitely women, fact" on to people. This serves no purpose other than to force your views on people as indisputable fact.
Soldato
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I thought LB got found out as a hack/fraud in the end and was just a troll or/and mentally disturbed.
That's the problem with the internet, you can create a persona, promote an agenda and instill a sphere of social influence without even being genuine.
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I don't think anyone's ignoring it, that's the entire reason this thread exists. It is a viewpoint that people hold. But it is an incorrect one, and it is deeply unfair and offensive to decide to label other people as they do not wish to be when the entire concept of gender is made up anyway.
Soldato
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Bathrooms are not divided based on race or sexuality, they are divided based on sex. Why we have sex segregated bathrooms is indeed an issue of cultural norms, that is self evident. But not allowing transsexuals to use the women's bathroom is not really a question of norms alone, because biologically those men are still men.
Why do you assume the only reason a man would go into the woman's is for nefarious reasons? Is it not possible the tranny is also going in there for nefarious reasons? It's well established that at least some transsexuals present as women for reasons of sexual arousal.
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It isn't incorrect, unfair, or offensive, it just is matter of fact. You can't impose that sort of thing then act like the problem exists with the people who say that they don't believe that to be the case.
You're essentially saying we need to accept that everyone is exactly what they feel they are, or we're being mean and offensive. Yeah, no.
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Associate
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In your opinion, of course.
Hahaha
No, it's a fact that that's how they feel. It isn't a fact that they are a woman/man. I'm not saying it's a fact that they aren't, I'm saying and a lot of others don't accept that they are.
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Then that is your problem, and the other people who think that way.
see that's the problem you want everyone to accept the feelings of the trans person but disregard the feelings of everyone else
Angilion has put forward a position that sex/gender shouldn't matter, that it is just cultural norms like segregating black/white. That position is defensible, you could easily have some situation like, I guess, Starship Troopers or the Swedish armed forces where men and women sharing say communal showers is a non issue - it is consistent, if there is no issue in not segregating genders in the first place then you're not going to have any issue with trans people anyway.
Your position on the other hand is flawed:
You're taking the position that there is an issue with men using the women's bathroom/changing room etc... That is quite standard in our culture for a variety of reasons, some of those simply boil down to men having different genitalia to women. If there is an issue with men in the women's bathroom then there is an issue, for some people, with trans women in the women's bathroom - you want to ignore that by sticking your head in the sand and declaring that trans women are women and base any argument from that position.
Sure it is polite to treat trans women as women in most situations but the reality is that they're not, generally, the same as women and there are going to be circumstances when they're going to have to accept that.
Frankly there are situations where people can and will exclude trans people - one cited example is someone running a support group for female rape victims, they want to ensure the victims feel comfortable in attending and might not if there are people with male genitalia present. That is rather different to excluding people on the basis of something arbitrary like race.
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Man of Honour
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It's not a problem it's a genuine indisputable medical, biological, genetic fact (unless a genetic difference that may be somewhere that creates TV/TS individuals is identified).
After-all regardless of XY XX within those very complex codes there could a fault that creates female minds in male bodies and visa-versa.
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So how's your 5-year plan to £50K going? You must be hitting £40K soon, I presume?
If you can explain how that's relevant to this thread, I'll answer.