Yet another ebay question (payments)

sven256 · 28 Oct 2015 at 16:41

To join the million and one threads.

I have sold a phone on ebay (yes I know)

The buyer has been a member for 2 months and has 0 feedback. He has a confirmed email address.

He has paid via echeque, which has cleared today and in my paypal account after a week.

I thought it was going to be a case of he was hoping i would send it the same or next day then the cheque would bounce and he would already have the phone.

So my question am i now safe and covered if i send the phone? or am i missing some other type of scam?

tom_e · 28 Oct 2015 at 16:45

It's paypal you're never safe as a seller to be honest.

Deathjester · 28 Oct 2015 at 17:13

Just ensure you have the IMEI number of the phone before sending.

Aldav · 28 Oct 2015 at 17:37

As I understand it, if PayPal are showing the echeque as "cleared", then you should be relatively safe. Maybe still subject to the usual risk of ebay disputes, returns, scammers, etc, but not from additional fraud over uncleared echeques bring cancelled.

If the echeque is still showing as pending, or uncleared, in PayPal, DO NOT send goods yet. But as I read your post, you're past that.

All that said, don't take my word for it, because I dumped eBay and PayPal years ago as just being too iffy for selling anything above modest value, by which I mean, prepared to write-off and walk away if it went pear-shaped.

spoffle · 28 Oct 2015 at 17:41

tom_e said:
It's paypal you're never safe as a seller to be honest.

You are, you just have to know what to do.

OP, withdraw the money from your PayPal account before you send the phone and check your bank account to see if there's a PayPal direct debit set up. If there is, cancel the direct debit. Once the PayPal money is in your bank account then send the phone.

You're now covered from PayPal trying to take the money from your bank account as they please if anything goes wrong.

The worst that can happen from this point is that PayPal refunds them out of their own pocket then claims you owe them. Legally you don't, so all they can do is ask you for it by way of thinly veiled threats of things they they can't actually do.

Sudden · 28 Oct 2015 at 18:05

spoffle said:
The worst that can happen from this point is that PayPal refunds them out of their own pocket then claims you owe them. Legally you don't, so all they can do is ask you for it by way of thinly veiled threats of things they they can't actually do.

OP - please don't take this as legal advice and rely on it.

spoffle · 28 Oct 2015 at 18:06

Sudden said:
OP - please don't take this as legal advice and rely on it.

Do you have the experience or knowledge of the subject to back this statement up?

sven256 · 28 Oct 2015 at 18:11

The money is now in my bank account.

The only thing that worries me is some reports online of buyers reporting not receiving the goods and paypal siding the them. Even though I have proof of tracking and they have a confirmed address.

But looks like i'm going to have to take the risk. All the details of the phone are recorded, so i should be safe there.

Thanks for the help.

Spook187 · 28 Oct 2015 at 18:15

Got to love these fleabay threads :eek:

spoffle · 28 Oct 2015 at 18:18

sven256 said:
The money is now in my bank account.

The only thing that worries me is some reports online of buyers reporting not receiving the goods and paypal siding the them. Even though I have proof of tracking and they have a confirmed address.

But looks like i'm going to have to take the risk. All the details of the phone are recorded, so i should be safe there.

Thanks for the help.

In such a situation paypal refunds the buyer from their own pocket and chases the seller.

There isn't actually a legal obligation to do anything though. They can't take it to court because they would be claiming that you owe a debt that's come about from the actions that they have taken of their own volition.

That isn't how debts work, as they would have to tell a court "we chose to refund the buyer of our own accord, now we want the seller to reimburse us".

If simply doesn't work like that. This is why they insist and bug you to "finish setting up your account" by way of setting up a direct debit, so they can dip in to your bank account should such a situation arise, as it'll be in their direct debit terms. This is the only reliable way they can get money back from people after they choose to refund buyers without your say.

Also, have you checked your bank account to see if there's a PayPal direct debit set up?

MadMouse101 · 28 Oct 2015 at 18:20

Not another ebay thread.

MrMoonX · 28 Oct 2015 at 18:40

do you have to ask, zero feedback + echeque = SCAM

LiE · 28 Oct 2015 at 18:48

Who uses echeques??

This never ends well · 28 Oct 2015 at 19:32

If you think your safe with paypal, dont get your hopes up.

Google askpin

spoffle · 28 Oct 2015 at 19:34

jamiehard1989 said:
If you think your safe with paypal, dont get your hopes up.

Google askpin

As I've said above, yes you can be very safe you just need to understand how that process works

This never ends well · 28 Oct 2015 at 19:38

spoffle said:
As I've said above, yes you can be very safe you just need to understand how that process works

Yep and this is why i have a separate bank account just for withdrawing money from PP and use entropay to pay for items.

Greebo · 28 Oct 2015 at 20:12

Most ebay scheques turn out to be paid by stolen credit cards. Expect a chargeback on your paypal account in a week or so when the genuine owner of the credit card notices the transaction.,

Sudden · 28 Oct 2015 at 20:31

spoffle said:
Do you have the experience or knowledge of the subject to back this statement up?

Yes, I do. One of them being a lawyer.

OP entered into a contract with PayPal. The terms of the contract are what allow PayPal to chase for payment, if they so choose.

Of course each case is different and I'm in no position to give any sort of legal advice, but I would very very seriously think twice before assuming PayPal have no legal right here to pursue for the funds

spoffle · 28 Oct 2015 at 20:51

Sudden said:
Yes, I do. One of them being a lawyer.

OP entered into a contract with PayPal. The terms of the contract are what allow PayPal to chase for payment, if they so choose.

Of course each case is different and I'm in no position to give any sort of legal advice, but I would very very seriously think twice before assuming PayPal have no legal right here to pursue for the funds

They don't under the circumstances of what usually happens. It's happened to my on more than one occasion and all my research has pointed me in the direction that they can't chase people for debts that they have created themselves.

Sudden · 28 Oct 2015 at 22:39

spoffle said:
They don't under the circumstances of what usually happens. It's happened to my on more than one occasion and all my research has pointed me in the direction that they can't chase people for debts that they have created themselves.

That's a commercial decision they may have made. Amounts below a certain amount may not be worth the cost/hassle of chasing.

Can they legally? I am almost certain the answer is yes. The contract you agree to with them is what permits them to. When you sign up, you give them the authority to decide certain things (like where a dispute is raised). If they decide against you, and they repay the other party, you then owe them a debt. They haven't 'created' the debt themselves. You have given them the authority to decide such things.

As I said above, each case is different. OP should get his own legal advice if he goes down this route.