Germaine Greer on Transexuality

Hitman_Leon said:
It's not paranoia, being deceived into sexual encounters that you would not knowingly take part in is a justifiable cause for alarm and anger, should you feel threatened as you try and break off/leave the encounter violence is justified to defend yourself from further assault or violence by the perpetrator.
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There is no deception. A trans woman is a woman.
 
dowie said:
no it isn't - for most people it is binary and for tiny portion they're a bit of both

and it is irrelevant for most trans people who are quite clearly either or biologically
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Yes, most trans people are not intersex. But sex is not so clearly defined. If genetics can't reliably tell you the sex of a person, and if genitalia can't reliably tell you the sex of a person, and if brain structure can't reliably tell you the sex of a person, and if hormone levels can't reliably tell you the sex of a person, then by what right do you assume to be able to dictate to other people how they can and can't act, and how they should and shouldn't feel about it based on the culturally constructed and ever changing gender roles of this particular society? By what right?

I don't agree with the proposition that "for most people it's binary", it doesn't make any sense. People are what they are. They can't be binary. Other people are different. Other people are different in different ways.
 
lafemmefatale said:
Using my tongue in cheek reference to secret santa just smacks of desperation.

I posted this:



Which is the truth.
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With the way you swing from one thing to another then go off on a tangent how is anyone to know what your true intentions are.

BTW tongue in cheek is usually accompanied by :p
 
Hitman_Leon said:
It is if they don't tell you before you have intimacy of any kind.
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Are you not going to respond to this?

PermaBanned said:
Exactly how common do you think this sort of thing is? Because most trans people i know or have even heard anything about this particular issue have a policy of telling a prospective partner either before, during or the day after a first date, and end up getting shot down, laughed at, scolded or abused over and over and over again.
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PermaBanned said:
Yes, most trans people are not intersex. But sex is not so clearly defined. If genetics can't reliably tell you the sex of a person, and if genitalia can't reliably tell you the sex of a person, and if brain structure can't reliably tell you the sex of a person, and if hormone levels can't reliably tell you the sex of a person, then by what right do you assume to be able to dictate to other people how they can and can't act, and how they should and shouldn't feel about it based on the culturally constructed and ever changing gender roles of this particular society? By what right?

I don't agree with the proposition that "for most people it's binary", it doesn't make any sense. People are what they are. They can't be binary. Other people are different. Other people are different in different ways.
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it is completely separate though - for most people sex isn't ambiguous at all, even for people with genetic abnormalities it often isn't either. The fact that there exist some tiny percentage of people who don't fall into either category has nothing to do with the fact that other people exist who believe they should be in the opposite category.
 
PermaBanned said:
Are you not going to respond to this?
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Speaking form a personal standpoint I understand how it could be a difficult subject to broach for a transsexual. I myself would just politely turn down any further advancement of the encounter beyond friendly chat. I don't know how many may try to hide their true identity as a transsexual and do not want to even hazard a guess. If I was forced to make an answer I would say a very small minority.
 
dowie said:
it is completely separate though - for most people sex isn't ambiguous at all, even for people with genetic abnormalities it often isn't either. The fact that there exist some tiny percentage of people who don't fall into either category has nothing to do with the fact that other people exist who believe they should be in the opposite category.
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Until you realise that there are any number of possible causes for gender dysphoria, like androgen receptor repetitions, or CYP17 genotype, or brain structure development, or BSTc region of the brain, or due to environmental personality conflicts, or any number of statistically linked and somewhat indirect causes. Are you really going to take all of these into account? Are you going to be able to find them all, to assign one to each case after a full genetic sequencing and months worth of testing and blood work and MRIs and whatever else? Are you going to be able to do that for everyone you run into on the street? No. You're not. Sex is not simple, it is not binary, and you have no scientific or medical basis on which to invade another person's life and start telling them how to live, how to think and how to feel.

Trying to force people into these convenient boxes isn't just needlessly hurtfull and unfair, it's impossible.
 
FoxEye said:
What's your view on a gay man performing a sex act on a straight guy by successfully impersonating a woman, just out of interest?
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Your opinion is that a trans woman is a gay man, so you're just trying to frame the question within the boundaries of your prejudice.

Please don't insult my intelligence by believing that I'm going to entertain such a loaded question.

It's like conversing with the hive-mind of the Daily Mail in here. :rolleyes:
 
RoboCod said:
Le femme-fresh quite evidently has an issue with men as many of their posts are male bashing/sexist.
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I don't have an issue with men, no. In fact I rather like men, I've been married to two of them. And I like women too, probably a little more than men these days.

What I do have an issue with is people with irrational prejudice, regardless of their definition.
 
PermaBanned said:
Until you realise that there are any number of possible causes for gender dysphoria, like androgen receptor repetitions, or CYP17 genotype, or brain structure development, or BSTc region of the brain, or due to environmental personality conflicts, or any number of statistically linked and somewhat indirect causes. Are you really going to take all of these into account? Are you going to be able to find them all, to assign one to each case after a full genetic sequencing and months worth of testing and blood work and MRIs and whatever else? Are you going to be able to do that for everyone you run into on the street? No. You're not. Sex is not simple, it is not binary, and you have no scientific or medical basis on which to invade another person's life and start telling them how to live, how to think and how to feel.

Trying to force people into these convenient boxes isn't just needlessly hurtfull and unfair, it's impossible.
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And yet none of that nullifies our right to choose who we sleep with.

Birth sex for most people, and I dare say for most trans people, will match what's written on their birth certificate. Most people will agree that their bodies were male or female at birth, and not "indeterminate".

And we all have the option not to sleep with anybody whose birth sex was the same as our own.

It is evident that you and LFF don't like this. But the needs of trans people to live happy lives do not outweigh the right of the rest of us to choose to reject them as sexual partners. I'm sorry.
 
lafemmefatale said:
I don't have an issue with men, no. In fact I rather like men, I've been married to two of them. And I like women too, probably a little more than men these days.

What I do have an issue with is people with irrational prejudice, regardless of their definition.
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You have been sexist though. Treating violence against men as less important than violence against women.
 
lafemmefatale said:
Your opinion is that a trans woman is a gay man, so you're just trying to frame the question within the boundaries of your prejudice.

Please don't insult my intelligence by believing that I'm going to entertain such a loaded question.

It's like conversing with the hive-mind of the Daily Mail in here. :rolleyes:
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But you shouldn't have difficulty answering that question. I've not claimed the situation to be exactly the same.

I'm asking your opinion on a different matter, like you asked someone's opinion on gay marriage.

If you can ask a tangential question why can't I?
 
FoxEye said:
And yet none of that nullifies our right to choose who we sleep with.

Birth sex for most people, and I dare say for most trans people, will match what's written on their birth certificate. Most people will agree that their bodies were male or female at birth, and not "indeterminate".

And we all have the option not to sleep with anybody whose birth sex was the same as our own.

It is evident that you and LFF don't like this. But the needs of trans people to live happy lives do not outweigh the right of the rest of us to choose to reject them as sexual partners. I'm sorry.
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Whenever I meet a new prospective sexual partner, one of the questions I'll ask is "what would you say if I told you were trans?".

That one weeds out the men from the boys, let me tell you.
 
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