Filled with wrong fuel

Nasher · 30 Oct 2015 at 14:18

TBH just drain the fuel out, fill it up with the correct stuff and try it. I bet it still works fine. The faults are most likely just contaminated sensors. Putting the wrong fuel in doesnt do THAT much damage.

PooKer · 30 Oct 2015 at 14:54

I get the feeling Nasher didn't read the thread lol

One thing I picked up on is you said Premium Diesel. Not the cheaper diesel that 99% of other people will use? That maybe why no one else had the issue. And I suspect the premium stuff had been sat around for so long it no longer classed as diesel, let alone premium.

Maybe try the local news paper and see if they run a story. Even if its online only where people can leave comments.

MOOGLEYS · 30 Oct 2015 at 14:56

Nasher said:
TBH just drain the fuel out, fill it up with the correct stuff and try it. I bet it still works fine. The faults are most likely just contaminated sensors. Putting the wrong fuel in doesnt do THAT much damage.

Petrol in a fuel injected diesel is a nightmare especially if it has been started and driven.

iaind · 30 Oct 2015 at 15:31

Redgie said:
But why then would the garage sign off on contaminated fuel and agree to provide a sample?

Contaminated with something - could have been crud from the filter or anything really.

Street said:
That's what I thought, but the garage are saying it's the fuel thats caused it and it does seem a hell of a coincidence that an injector and fuel pump are throwing up faults just after I fill up. I even confirmed the fault codes before I called the AA as I have a fault reader so I know the garage aren't lying about these.

A coincidence yes, but those things happen. It would be a less strange occurence than it being genuinely contaminated and not a single other person reporting it - which is what seems to be happening. Diesel fuel systems do fail on common rail engines, thats sadly not that uncommon

iaind · 30 Oct 2015 at 15:32

PooKer said:
I get the feeling Nasher didn't read the thread lol

One thing I picked up on is you said Premium Diesel. Not the cheaper diesel that 99% of other people will use? That maybe why no one else had the issue. And I suspect the premium stuff had been sat around for so long it no longer classed as diesel, let alone premium.

Maybe try the local news paper and see if they run a story. Even if its online only where people can leave comments.

Tesco only sell one grade of diesel

p1RATE · 30 Oct 2015 at 16:01

MOOGLEYS said:
Petrol in a fuel injected diesel is a nightmare especially if it has been started and driven.

I don't see how a fuel injection has anything to do with it, pretty much all diesel car engines will be injected.

On older diesel engines you can get away with mixing diesel or another heavy oil with the petrol and burning it off. I know guys that would mix petrol or kerosene with WVO.

Sin_Chase · 30 Oct 2015 at 16:42

You do have consider the coincident angle. Seeing as it has had petrol in it historically it is not beyond the realms of possibility that it is just sheer coincidence.

Has the garage provided a chemistry report that shows the fuel in your tank is contaminated? If so, what with and to what degree? Perhaps there are some gremlins from your previous repair that have been slowly building up this this failure.

Street · 30 Oct 2015 at 17:00

The previous repair was about 3-4 years ago and I've done tens of thousands of miles since then. The sample they have pulled out is black which is what happens to petrol when you put it in a diesel system.

iaind said:
Tesco only sell one grade of diesel

It's an Esso petrol station attached to a Tesco so they sell premium diesel.

Sin_Chase · 30 Oct 2015 at 17:07

Where had you filled up prior, and how much?

Street · 30 Oct 2015 at 17:18

I'd put a tank full in at a Shell in Liverpool and driven about 500 miles on it until it was down to about 30 miles left on the dash.

iaind · 30 Oct 2015 at 17:26

There are lots of things that can turn diesel black - mostly related to engine problems, fuel filters etc. Remember that a lot of fuel is returned to the tank in normal operation so it doesn't just get in there from the pump.

In fact the one thing I can't find a single reference to is black fuel caused by contaminating diesel with petrol or vice versa.

Normally it seems to be excess heat from failing fuel pump, worn injector o-rings or simply a fuel filter needing replacement.

http://www.diesel-fuels.com/bad-diesel-fuel.php

A separate but equally perplexing problem is the natural degradation of diesel fuel. A diesel engine uses only some of the fuel it pulls from the tank. All of that fuel goes through the high-pressure fuel pump and to the injectors operating under enormous pressure and high temperatures. The surplus fuel the engine is not using goes back to the tank. This fuel is continuously re-circulated and exposed to extreme pressure and heat, which results in the agglomeration of asphaltenes, the high carbon content, heavy end fuel molecules. It leads to the formation of larger and larger clusters and solids, which are very difficult to completely combust. These solids may grow so large that they will not pass through the filter element. They become part of the polymer and sludge build up plugging the filter.

In addition, the hot fuel coming back to the tank will raise the fuel temperature in the tank, cause condensation (water accumulation in the bottom of the tank) and contribute to microbial contamination, fuel break down, bio fouling and the build up of sludge and acid.

Large fuel droplets and high asphaltene concentrations require more time, more energy and higher temperatures to combust than is available in engines during the combustion cycle and before the exhaust valve opens. Any device in the fuel system exposing the fuel to stress (heat and pressure) such as pumps, heaters, or centrifuges will increase the formation of asphaltenes. If you have seen fuel that has turned dark, or almost black, in comparison to clear, bright fuel, then you have witnessed the results of this process. This degraded, dark fuel negatively impacts combustion.

Street · 30 Oct 2015 at 17:29

Fuel Fixer. Have a look near the top of that page, says about petrol going black in a diesel system.

iaind · 30 Oct 2015 at 17:39

That site actually backs up the theory that it wasn't petrol in the pump. For a start the black is from it sitting for more than a day, yours didn't. It also says that you'd get much further than a few minutes away with the fuel that's in the pipes. Finally, it also says, like a lot of people here have said, that petrol would rarely cause that much damage.

I'm pretty convinced you've suffered common garden diesel fuel system failure. Fuel will most likely be black for the reasons quoted above (still considered contaminated!) and its perfectly feasible that an issue will happen shortly after starting - swarf in the pump getting dislodged for example.

Finally - and most significantly, while misfilling tanks does happen, it wouldn't just affect you. I remember last time it happened it was national news, I read about it and I was nowhere near it.

I'm 99% sure that what came out that pump was diesel and nothing else

If I was in your shoes I'd be weighing up whether I'd want to pay to fix the car, assume it's coming out your pocket and there's nobody else with liability. If it comes to light later that the petrol station was at fault you can seek to reclaim costs - but you stand to be significantly out of pocket if your ahead with the repair on the assumption that someone else will foot the bill

Street · 30 Oct 2015 at 23:52

iaind said:
That site actually backs up the theory that it wasn't petrol in the pump. For a start the black is from it sitting for more than a day, yours didn't.

It sat for four days before they could look at it. It happened on Saturday morning and the garage didn't look at it till Wednesday.

iaind said:
It also says that you'd get much further than a few minutes away with the fuel that's in the pipes. Finally, it also says, like a lot of people here have said, that petrol would rarely cause that much damage.

I had reversed away from the pump and driven to the air machine to top up my tyres while I was there, then driven away from the petrol station. I'd ran the car until a fault appeared and if you read it, it does say it is possible to kill injectors if the car is run. It's also not the first time the injectors have been damaged as they were replaced when the car was stolen about 3-4 years ago and the car was filled with petrol and ran till it died.

iaind said:
I'm pretty convinced you've suffered common garden diesel fuel system failure.

Maybe, but the garage said misfuel to me and are willing to write a report stating this for me.

iaind said:
If I was in your shoes I'd be weighing up whether I'd want to pay to fix the car, assume it's coming out your pocket and there's nobody else with liability. If it comes to light later that the petrol station was at fault you can seek to reclaim costs - but you stand to be significantly out of pocket if your ahead with the repair on the assumption that someone else will foot the bill

I'm going ahead on the assumption I will have to pay as I need the car working, if I can claim anything back it's a bonus.

iaind · 31 Oct 2015 at 07:52

Remember garages aren't always right and they're not always as thorough as you might want them to be. If you told them the fault happened after you filled up then you had already seeded them the thought that it was misfueled. On draining the tank, seeing the discoloured fuel was probably the extent of their diagnosis - but like above there's a more likely explanation for that.

You need a chemical analysis or at least one other person who's suffered the same issue to have any hope of claiming. I don't know how expensive the former is but I've had expected the latter to have been forthcoming by now.

SlyReaper · 31 Oct 2015 at 09:29

Edit: never mind, I only read the first page.

Jonnycoupe · 31 Oct 2015 at 09:52

Vertigo1 said:
By far the biggest question mark for me, simply doesn't make sense. If it was a problem with the station then others would have been affected. The OP may not be aware of them but Tesco would be and I can't see them trying to trot out the denials ad nauseum if their doors were being beaten down with multiple complaints.

He said he put premium in. Does that mean the station brand being premium or like V power diesel. Few others put premium diesel in I imagine?

iaind · 31 Oct 2015 at 11:43

Jonnycoupe said:
He said he put premium in. Does that mean the station brand being premium or like V power diesel. Few others put premium diesel in I imagine?

Fewer in comparison but there'll still be plenty people buying it. There'll have been thousands of litres of that sold by now