Soldato
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This
This
Poll: Is the 'gender pay gap' a real thing?
- Thread starter kissenger
- Start date
Whether or not. People should be paid based on ability/performance.
Is a man in the same role as a woman better than her at her job? If yes, pay him more.
Is a woman in the same role as a man better than him at his job? If yes, pay her more.
And I'm fairly sure this is what happens currently. Having the same job title and the same amount of experience doesn't mean you're just as good as that person. At the end of the day you are at the company to make them money, if you make them more money you get more money.
Directly comparing men vs women is pointless. Because there are many men paid more than women because they're better than the women at their job, and also there are many women paid more than men because they're better than the men at their job.
Here's an idea. How about they stop telling girls they should do 'girly' jobs and stop telling men they have to do 'manly' jobs. I work for an engineering company and at my site 12 out of 500 of our engineers are women. A similar percentage applies in HR except it's flipped. Why? Women aren't attracted to STEM subjects, why? I don't know but clearly it's something to do with what society expects of women.
Get rid of all the stigma and compare it again in 100 years after it's had time to take effect.
Is a man in the same role as a woman better than her at her job? If yes, pay him more.
Is a woman in the same role as a man better than him at his job? If yes, pay her more.
And I'm fairly sure this is what happens currently. Having the same job title and the same amount of experience doesn't mean you're just as good as that person. At the end of the day you are at the company to make them money, if you make them more money you get more money.
Directly comparing men vs women is pointless. Because there are many men paid more than women because they're better than the women at their job, and also there are many women paid more than men because they're better than the men at their job.
Here's an idea. How about they stop telling girls they should do 'girly' jobs and stop telling men they have to do 'manly' jobs. I work for an engineering company and at my site 12 out of 500 of our engineers are women. A similar percentage applies in HR except it's flipped. Why? Women aren't attracted to STEM subjects, why? I don't know but clearly it's something to do with what society expects of women.
Get rid of all the stigma and compare it again in 100 years after it's had time to take effect.
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Did you even read what I said?.
2. Encouragement for both men & women to not be put off certain professions by gender stereotypes.
This again, it's not highly controversial - pre-existing biases & pressures to avoid or go into certain professions should be broken down & people encouraged to work in whatever field they can excel at.
This would help & you are correct, it's likely something which can't be changed overnight.
Permabanned
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I read what you said, i am just pointing out what we don't see in terms of gender equality. It is all nice to say that should happen for men and women when we don't see it ever happening for men. The reality is that women are pushed in to male dominated industries all the time. Men are often the opposite, pushed out of female dominated industries.
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Was the female level risen to the male, male lowered to the female or somewhere in the middle?
The quality of education is closely associated with better earnings later in life yet women tend to make less than men, despite generally being better students. Girls tend to read more and do more homework and have higher grades yet when they enter the workforce all that effort somehow doesn't translate into higher earnings, despite it doing so when comparing boys with other boys.
It's a cultural problem and we need to fix it as soon as possible because it is a drain on overall productivity.
It's a cultural problem and we need to fix it as soon as possible because it is a drain on overall productivity.
The way subjects are taught heavily favour women as well.
Man of Honour
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There are higher standards for specialist units, but again it's the same for both genders.
Because engineers can expect to earn several multiples of what a beauticians can expect to earn?
And there's often plenty of obstacles to women becoming engineers. I know several (and several more who've quit) who have some absolute horror stories. They find colleagues don't respect them, don't listen to them and male-dominated companies often don't take sexual harassment seriously. One of them was even sexually harassed on a graduate training scheme by one of the people running the scheme!
I'd also hope that men wanting to get into beauty wouldn't face similar obstacles or stigma.
Your first sentence or question or whatever it was made no sense to what I wrote. You suggesting earning potential is stopping people from going into a certain careers because it's less lucrative? That's not a barrier to a career, that's a choice someone makes. People are not stopped from becoming beauticians just because engineers earn more?
You know several who were stopped from becoming engineers? Like told they can't become engineers?
Your 2nd point may hold water. But people all over the shop think they aren't respected or don't think they are listened to. It isn't a sex orientated problem. There are plenty of female engineers to use an example against your anecdotal evidence.
Anyways it's all a moot point imo. World doesn't NEED more female engineers, it doesn't NEED more male beauticians. No industry NEEDS more of one sex.
Liberals gonna liberal.
50/50 split would be nice, but when the ratio of those who want to work is probably skewed in the male favour (due to how many females want to be the stay at home parent) how can the work place be 50/50?
Lastly, if female and males are equal, why does it matter what the numbers are? All capable of the same things.
if anything it is actually easier for women in STEM fields these days simply because they're a minority and there is some perceived pressure among hiring managers to bring them in - pretty much every tech employer has a shortage of women and in some cases that can present an advantage to recent female grads
That's pretty much how all factories and production Industry's work....
You make your quotas or you're out. No one cares what you keep in your pants
What I'm saying is that engineers, on average, earn significantly more the beauticians.
No, they became engineers but quit through frustration with the sexism in the industry. Do you know that it's still pretty common in the states for tech start-ups to have group outing at strips clubs? As a woman you can either go and feel uncomfortable or miss out on a bonding experience. Tough call.
If you want to run a successful business, you need to design your products for a wide audience. If your workforce has little in the way of diversity, you're going to struggle to capture the maximum possible audience. For example, Apple made a health app that didn't track the one thing that women want to track more than anything else. How do you think that happened? I'm sure a male beautician could give better advice to male customers based on their own experiences too.
Smart companies, like Apple, are doing more to hire people from different backgrounds.
Soldato
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Still waiting for the drive for more binwomen.
I didn't think the difference in wage was ever up for debate?
Well I'm not familiar with the states, nor the engineering industry. I am sure it does goes on, I imagine it happens in a fair few industries. However it's pretty anecdotal and probably more company orientated and select, other than the norm.
I don't refute your later arguments however. Diversity is a good thing and companies that employ only men or only women might possibly be missing something. Possibly.
The argument here though is the need for it to be 50/50 across the board. The thinking is that somehow unless you are 50/50 you are discriminating somehow. It's a load of rubbish.
Again I don't refute the comment about male beauticians offering better advice to male clients. Maybe that is the case? Maybe it isn't? Just in the same way a male hairdresser doesn't necessarily cut men's hair better. It's a learnt trait. However, how many males use beauticians compared to women? The demand probably doesn't warrant there being a male:female beautician ratio of 50/50.
The talk of pegging bonus' to gender equality does exactly the opposite to what it is suppose to achieve. Have more women in your company? Want to achieve the best bonus you can? NEED to hire men.
Soldato
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Endurance? No.
