ISIL, ISIS, Daesh discussion thread.

Wouldn't be so bad if they actually shot the plane down over Turkey, planes can be replaced but to shot them down over Syria is death sentence for the pilots.

The US are claiming the jet was warned 10 times, given the speed they travel and the small area of Turkish space they passed through I doubt it and it's irrelevant anyway, once they were out of their airspace the "opportunity", if you can call it that was lost.

You can't shoot planes down after they've left your airspace and are moving away from you. Whoever gave that order must have been drunk or well compensated.
 
Shocky they don't wait until the aircraft is in their airspace to start issuing warnings.
They'll have been doing it when there was still plenty of time for the aircraft to respond and turn aside.
Unfortunately Russia seems to ignore any such warnings in many cases.

It's like civilian ATC, you don't start getting instructions once you're in the space, you're getting them well in advance if just so that you have time to avoid hitting that slower moving aircraft.
 
Can't we all just sit down with a nice brew and a packet of digestives and talk it through rather than constantly bombing each other? :(
 
Shocky-FM said:
You can't shoot planes down after they've left your airspace and are moving away from you. Whoever gave that order must have been drunk or well compensated.
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I've said it before but people don't seem to understand how fast and how far missiles travel. A modern A2A missile will have a range of up to 50km and be able to travel at mach 3+. Even at such a high speed it will take over 2 minutes to travel that distance. They could have easily fire the missile whilst the Russian plane was within their airspace and not actually had it reach the target until the Russian plane was back out over Syria.
 
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Jeps said:
I've said it before but people don't seem to understand how fast and how far missiles travel. A modern A2A missile will have a range of up to 50km and be able to travel at mach 3+. Even at such a high speed it will take over 2 minutes to travel that distance. They could have easily fire the missile whilst the Russian plane was within their airspace and not actually had it reach the target until the Russian plane was back out over Syria.
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not just that but the aircraft itelf can easily fall 4km in a straight line once hit as well.

that and the reports say it crashed *just* inside of syria
 
Jeps said:
I've said it before but people don't seem to understand how fast and how far missiles travel. A modern A2A missile will have a range of up to 50km and be able to travel at mach 3+. Even at such a high speed it will take over 2 minutes to travel that distance. They could have easily fire the missile whilst the Russian plane was within their airspace and not actually had it reach the target until the Russian plane was back out over Syria.
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I think it's more likely that the patrolling planes were shadowing the russian plane on their side of the border. Question is was the order to fire based on fighter hitting turkish allies or on the incursion into airspace.

Fire first rather than accompany the plane out of airspace..

However if they have been told in the past repeatedly.. you can see Turkey's defence of airspace not allowing a bluff called.
 
NickK said:
Fire first rather than accompany the plane out of airspace..

However if they have been told in the past repeatedly.. you can see Turkey's defence of airspace not allowing a bluff called.
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Especially if the aircraft is known to be armed.

The Russians know that the Turkish military shot down one of their drones recently, so at the very least you'd expect the Russian pilots and controllers to be monitoring the known Turkish frequencies used for warnings, and the guard/emergency/ATC frequencies.
 
I am sure nobody knows the absolute facts yet of what really went on. Time will hopefully expose the truth, or at least a good % of it.
 
koolpc said:
I am sure nobody knows the absolute facts yet of what really went on. Time will hopefully expose the truth, or at least a good % of it.
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I'm sure we'll get one map with the Russian jet outside Turkish airspace, and one map with it just inside Turkish airspace :)

One thing is for certain; neither side is going to say "huh....I guess we were wrong...sorry about that! <blush>"
 
either way it has clearly been shot down over Syria - so rather dubious from Turkey, even if it had previously crossed into their airspace briefly it is still essentially shooting someone in the back
 
Screeeech said:
Agreed, but they probably got off lightly compared to what ISIS do to captured pilots,

The way I see it, (which I'll admit could be totally wrong) is that Russia seem to have been asking for it, the amount of times they've been upsetting Turkey - they ignored the warnings and paid the consequences.

What happens next - my gut feeling is pretty much nothing, Russia may intensify it's bombing of the FSA in Syria, but I think that's about it, they'll talk tough like they always do - but I don't think much else will happen.
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What are turkey doing to fund, sorry fight isil on their doorstep?
 
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