Auction help

spoffle · 30 Nov 2015 at 17:05

Greebo said:
Exactly. The seller would have had no protection. Buyer would have sent money, OP would have posted it. A week or so later paypal would have reversed the payment and OP would be negative balance on paypal and no comeback.

No, when you send money as a gift, the BUYER gets no protection. You're getting it back to front. The buyer can't reverse a payment they sent as a gift.

spoffle · 30 Nov 2015 at 17:06

AdladUK said:
True. But if the scammer had used a stolen PayPal account or a stolen credit card to pay for the "gift", I'd imagine PayPal would still freeze the funds and the buyer would have the laptop and I'd be left with nothing

Well, it gets a bit more complicated than that, but it's fairly easy to avoid being left out of pocket, even if they are a scammer. The key part is to withdraw the money as soon as it hits your account.

Greebo · 30 Nov 2015 at 17:08

spoffle said:
No, when you send money as a gift, the BUYER gets no protection. You're getting it back to front. The buyer can't reverse a payment they sent as a gift.

Doesnt matter cause its a stolen paypal account or credit card. Why on earth would the buyer want protection????????? He's the scammer!

Point is the seller will have no protection or comeback. He wouldnt have Ebay seller protection cause he sold out of Ebay and he wouldnt have Paypal seller protection cause he just received a gift.

AdladUK · 30 Nov 2015 at 17:12

spoffle said:
Well, it gets a bit more complicated than that, but it's fairly easy to avoid being left out of pocket, even if they are a scammer. The key part is to withdraw the money as soon as it hits your account.

Yeah and even if you're lucky enough to get the money and withdraw it from your bank account, why would I want to burn my bridges like that?

I'm essentially ruining my eBay and PayPal account for 1 transaction and a$$hole.

That's assuming PayPal don't reverse the money from my bank account or credit/debit card at some point, which I believe they have the power to do once you attach them

spoffle · 30 Nov 2015 at 17:30

AdladUK said:
Yeah and even if you're lucky enough to get the money and withdraw it from your bank account, why would I want to burn my bridges like that?

I'm essentially ruining my eBay and PayPal account for 1 transaction and a$$hole.

That's assuming PayPal don't reverse the money from my bank account or credit/debit card at some point, which I believe they have the power to do once you attach them

I'm not suggesting you do, I'm just stating facts. However, in such a situation it'd only be your PayPal account that you'd need to dump, not your eBay account (again, stating facts).

spoffle · 30 Nov 2015 at 17:33

Greebo said:
Doesnt matter cause its a stolen paypal account or credit card. Why on earth would the buyer want protection????????? He's the scammer!

Point is the seller will have no protection or comeback. He wouldnt have Ebay seller protection cause he sold out of Ebay and he wouldnt have Paypal seller protection cause he just received a gift.

You do realise that you're assuming it's stolen, right?

Additionally, if someone is using a stolen PayPal account or credit card, then how you've received the payment isn't going to stop the hassle that could be associated with that.

But in a situation without the assumption that they are a scammer, there is nothing a buyer can do if they've sent money via the gift method.

Greebo · 30 Nov 2015 at 17:40

spoffle said:
But in a situation without the assumption that they are a scammer, there is nothing a buyer can do if they've sent money via the gift method.

But i cant see a situation where a genuine buyer would want to pay for an ebay item outside of ebay and to just send money to the seller's paypal account unless he was a scammer? It's more hassle and takes longer to sort than either pyaing by clicking the pay now button on ebay or paying on the ebay invoice he has been sent. Because as you have just said, he will have lost all his buyer's protection if he is a genuine buyer.

spoffle · 30 Nov 2015 at 17:44

It's a fairly common process. It saves the seller paying fees, and the buyer can save some too. I've made the request myself, and most of the time the sellers have no issue with it.

Zenduri · 30 Nov 2015 at 17:47

Is this the new thing now... Disguising Ebay posts as "Auction Threads" to minimize being berated for using ebay

lol

neoboy · 30 Nov 2015 at 17:48

I've long stayed away from selling on eBay, recently had an unwanted electric toothbrush as a gift which I thought surely no one would try to scam me on for such an item, so stuck it on sale.

Someone buys it, one name and address on eBay then make a payment through an eCheque on Paypal (first flag) that has a completely different name on with an address (huge second flag) and to add to the insult eBay themselves tell me that address isn't confirmed and I'm not covered for the seller protection at all. Bearing in mind how useless that protection is to begin with, it's unbelievable they had the cheek to tell me I wasn't even getting that yet I'm still paying both eBay and Paypal fees. Cancelled the sale without any correspondence citing address problems in the options and they just ignored the request without raising any cases or messaging me so instinct was correct.

On a bright side decided to use it and actually love it now heh.

timmeh · 30 Nov 2015 at 17:56

I've just listed my old iPhone on eBay. Waiting for the scams to start... Will be taking down IMEI and all that before sending it that's for sure!

AdladUK · 30 Nov 2015 at 20:25

Look at the email I just got from eBay!

We think eBay account x has been used without the account owner's permission, so we're now restoring it to them. To protect this member's privacy, we can't share any more details about their account.

People sometimes misuse eBay accounts by sending emails from them. In these emails, they invite you to buy or sell outside eBay, or ask questions that have nothing to do with eBay. They do this in the hope that you'll respond and give them your email address.

We strongly recommend you treat emails from this member with caution and don't respond if you hear from them again.

Seems the suspicion was justified...

AdladUK · 30 Nov 2015 at 20:27

spoffle said:
It's a fairly common process. It saves the seller paying fees, and the buyer can save some too. I've made the request myself, and most of the time the sellers have no issue with it.

Well my suspicion was 100% justified and I just saved myself being scammed for £650. So yeah...

Greebo · 30 Nov 2015 at 20:33

spoffle said:
It's a fairly common process. It saves the seller paying fees, and the buyer can save some too. I've made the request myself, and most of the time the sellers have no issue with it.

I wouldn't agree. I would assume you were a scammer. I've even had sellers ask for me to pay outside of eBay and I refuse. No protection otherwise.

Why give up 6 months guarantee and easy protection to perhaps what, share 10% of the the buying price with the seller so 5%?

And the times I've been asked, the seller hasnt even offered me any discount. They expect me to give up my protection so they can save 10% and don't even offer me anything?

And for £5 every £100 of item value I'd rather take the 6 months warranty thanks./

toon_mad · 30 Nov 2015 at 21:24

HybridX said:
Is this the new thing now... Disguising Ebay posts as "Auction Threads" to minimize being berated for using ebay lol

Apparently so, but scams, dodgee and auction pretty much equals Ebay

spoffle · 30 Nov 2015 at 22:15

Greebo said:
I wouldn't agree. I would assume you were a scammer. I've even had sellers ask for me to pay outside of eBay and I refuse. No protection otherwise.

Why give up 6 months guarantee and easy protection to perhaps what, share 10% of the the buying price with the seller so 5%?

And the times I've been asked, the seller hasnt even offered me any discount. They expect me to give up my protection so they can save 10% and don't even offer me anything?

And for £5 every £100 of item value I'd rather take the 6 months warranty thanks./

It doesn't matter that you wouldn't agree, I'm talking from personal experience. It's been fairly successful from my perspective to negotiate a larger discount by taking it outside of eBay. The discount is to the tune of 10% minimum. The process is to see if we can come to an arrangement, I'm usually offered a 10% discount, sometimes 15%. Sometimes I make that suggestion, sometimes the seller does. If we then take it outside of eBay, it can bolster the discount to 20+%

You really are quite uninformed about this process. I'm not giving up any protection, because PayPal mirrors all of eBay's buyer and seller protection "features".

I keep telling you about the part I've bolded, but you seem to be ignoring it. :confused:

spoffle · 30 Nov 2015 at 22:17

AdladUK said:
Well my suspicion was 100% justified and I just saved myself being scammed for £650. So yeah...

I literally said before that I'm just giving the facts. I never once told you that I think you should go ahead with it it. I even said then that I wasn't telling you to do it.

I'm simply showing you that a buyer making the suggestion to pay outside of eBay isn't an automatic cause for concern.

Greebo · 30 Nov 2015 at 22:24

spoffle said:
It doesn't matter that you wouldn't agree, I'm talking from personal experience. It's been fairly successful from my perspective to negotiate a larger discount by taking it outside of eBay. The discount is to the tune of 10% minimum. The process is to see if we can come to an arrangement, I'm usually offered a 10% discount, sometimes 15%. Sometimes I make that suggestion, sometimes the seller does. If we then take it outside of eBay, it can bolster the discount to 20+%

You really are quite uninformed about this process. I'm not giving up any protection, because PayPal mirrors all of eBay's buyer and seller protection "features".

I keep telling you about the part I've bolded, but you seem to be ignoring it.

So hold on, the seller has 10% fees for selling and they offer you 15% to sell outside of ebay? sometimes 20%? Makes no sense.

And secondly paypal doesnt mirror ebay's seller and purchase protection features. Its better than nothing but not as strong as ebay.

SO please tell me why if I sold an item on ebay for £100 to you and would have £90 after fees (or less if special offer is on) would I sell it to you with lesser protection outside of ebay for £80??????

spoffle · 30 Nov 2015 at 22:50

Greebo said:
So hold on, the seller has 10% fees for selling and they offer you 15% to sell outside of ebay? sometimes 20%? Makes no sense.

And secondly paypal doesnt mirror ebay's seller and purchase protection features. Its better than nothing but not as strong as ebay.

SO please tell me why if I sold an item on ebay for £100 to you and would have £90 after fees (or less if special offer is on) would I sell it to you with lesser protection outside of ebay for £80??????

I'm starting to feel as if you're misunderstanding on purpose.

I see an item I want, I contact the seller and make them an offer. They say they can do x% off. Sometimes they will say "or evenmore% via PayPal direct".

Sometimes I will say "can you do a bigger discount outside of eBay?". Most of the time it's a resounding yes.

Yes, PayPal does mirror the protection. Look in to it.

Greebo · 30 Nov 2015 at 23:10

spoffle said:
I'm starting to feel as if you're misunderstanding on purpose.

I see an item I want, I contact the seller and make them an offer. They say they can do x% off. Sometimes they will say "or evenmore% via PayPal direct".

Sometimes I will say "can you do a bigger discount outside of eBay?". Most of the time it's a resounding yes.

Yes, PayPal does mirror the protection. Look in to it.

No im not misunderstanding you but i think you are me.

Fact 1: selling fees on ebay is 10%

And i know paypal protection and it doesnt match ebay unless you do several extra steps which you had already done on ebay by default. Again I ask why should the seller spend time fulfilling paypals's requirements to sell it to you for 10% less than they were going to get on Ebay after fees? Makes no sense at all.

Why would a seller sell to you outside fo ebay for 20% off?

I can understand them going halves, they get 5% and the buyer gets 5% but your way you are the only winner?

And I am automatically suspicious of any ebay selling who tries to deal a deal outside of ebay as "most" are scammers although I appreciate you aren't but I would never sell to you fro a 20% off when I get 10% more by selling through ebay.

So in your example I list an item on ebay for £100 and will get £90 after fees.

You come along and say I'll offer you £90 on ebay but can you do better outside of ebay. I will be getting £81 after fees so I say yes, of course, I'll do more work, i may not have as much protection if I don't do things right by paypal but I'll sell it to you for £81 outside of ebay? What's in it for me? You see my point? Why shouldnt I just take you £90 offer and let it go through ebay? I'm gaining nothing and taking more risk?