ISIL, ISIS, Daesh discussion thread.

awaybreaktoday said:
The reason why they are nothing to do Islam is that anyone who truly understand Islam knows that it is wrong to take another humans life.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

No true Scotsman is an informal fallacy, an ad hoc attempt to retain an unreasoned assertion.[1] When faced with a counterexample to a universal claim ("no Scotsman would do such a thing"), rather than denying the counterexample or rejecting the original claim, this fallacy modifies the subject of the assertion to exclude the specific case or others like it by rhetoric, without reference to any specific objective rule ("no true Scotsman would do such a thing")
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dowie said:
LOL

the Islamic State is nothing to do with Islam?????

Think you'd better rethink that - their reason for existing is to form an Islamic caliphate based on fundamentalist interpretations of Islam...
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Yes I am saying they are nothing to do with Islam, I do not care for what words they wish to associate with their ideology it still does not make them what they think they want to be.
 
awaybreaktoday said:
Yes I am saying they are nothing to do with Islam, I do not care for what words they wish to associate with their ideology it still does not make them what they think they want to be.
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except it basically does - they're followers of Islam who want to make an Islamic state and are waging a holy war in order to try and achieve that aim

they've implemented Sharia law, they've re-introduced slavery

what they're doing has everything to do with Islam, your 'no true scotsman' argument is nonsense
 
dowie said:
except it basically does - they're followers of Islam who want to make an Islamic state and are waging a holy war in order to try and achieve that aim

they've implemented Sharia law, they've re-introduced slavery

what they're doing has everything to do with Islam, your 'no true scotsman' argument is nonsense
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Is the IS related to Judaism?
 
in fact claiming that some other group are not real Muslims is what allows them to kill them as infidels/apostates in the first place

you're basically making the same claim that ISIS make about shia muslims or sunni muslims who don't conform to their fundamentalist interpretations

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dowie said:
except it basically does - they're followers of Islam who want to make an Islamic state and are waging a holy war in order to try and achieve that aim

they've implemented Sharia law, they've re-introduced slavery

what they're doing has everything to do with Islam, your 'no true scotsman' argument is nonsense
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For a start Islam is against slavery......
 
Zethor said:
Then it is related to Islam only in so far as they follow certain concepts picked and chosen from Islam.
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you could say that about any group of muslims

the IS is related to Islam because they're muslims trying to establish an Islamic state based on their interpretation of Islam... it is a pretty clear link
 
dowie said:
you could say that about any group of muslims

the IS is related to Islam because they're muslims trying to establish an Islamic state based on their interpretation of Islam... it is a pretty clear link
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They are you Muslim to you because you say they are and they say they are. They are not Muslim to me because they have learnt nothing from it.
 
dowie said:
you could say that about any group of muslims

the IS is related to Islam because they're muslims trying to establish an Islamic state based on their interpretation of Islam... it is a pretty clear link
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You can link the IS with Judaism too but what's the point of doing so or linking it to Islam? They have their on ideology, different from both Islam and Judaism.
 
awaybreaktoday said:
For a start Islam is against slavery......
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even for people captured in war - as per what ISIS is doing...

oh yeah that would be the interpretation thing again


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_views_on_slavery#Islamic_jurisprudence
In Islamic jurisprudence, slavery was an exceptional condition, with the general rule being a presumption of freedom (al-'asl huwa 'l-hurriya — "The basic principle is liberty") for a person if his or her origins were unknown.[2] Lawful enslavement was restricted to two instances: capture in war (on the condition that the prisoner is not a Muslim), or birth in slavery. Islamic law did not recognize the classes of slave from pre-Islamic Arabia including those sold or given into slavery by themselves and others, and those indebted into slavery.[2] Though a free Muslim could not be enslaved, conversion to Islam by a non-Muslim slave did not require that he or she then should be liberated. Slave status was not affected by conversion to Islam.
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and before you point it out yes you can get into all sorts of tedious arguments about which bits of the Quran you chose to ignore...

'oh but that bit we decided doesn't apply because of X or because that bit uses the past tense we've interpreted it as only being valid in the time of the prophet etc..etc..'

so perhaps in your interpretation slavery isn't allowed, in ISIS's interpretation is allowed
 
Zethor said:
You can link the IS with Judaism too but what's the point of doing so or linking it to Islam? They have their on ideology, different from both Islam and Judaism.
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There is no point in linking IS with Judaism, there isn't much of a link other than sharing the same god and some prophets as Christians and Jews - they're an Islamic group, their beliefs come from Islam.
 
dowie said:
even for people captured in war - as per what ISIS is doing...

oh yeah that would be the interpretation thing again


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_views_on_slavery#Islamic_jurisprudence


and before you point it out yes you can get into all sorts of tedious arguments about which bits of the Quran you chose to ignore...

'oh but that bit we decided doesn't apply because of X or because that bit uses the past tense we've interpreted it as only being valid in the time of the prophet etc..etc..'

so perhaps in your interpretation slavery isn't allowed, in ISIS's interpretation is allowed
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Read the whole Koran and then you will understand, not cherry picked comments.
 
awaybreaktoday said:
Read the whole Koran and then you will understand, not cherry picked comments.
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Fundamentalists can read the whole Quran and still be fundamentalists - problem is people interpret the thing differently, it isn't exactly a well thought out book.

There is plenty of nasty stuff in there, being a 'moderate' muslim also involves cherry picking or making convoluted arguments for why violent passages don't apply etc..
 
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