BG 330+ fitting new Hive, hot water ok, no heating

Code Breaker · 2 Dec 2015 at 18:16

Hi Guys

Hi there, I have following:
Old Setup:
BG 330+ (Glow worm re-badged)
RC Plus wireless thermostat in hall
Timer/control Model UT2 in cupboard upstairs with hot water tank. Boiler downstairs in Kitchen

New setup/addition: BG Hive thermostat - dual channel heating and hot water

I bought the new Hive 2 kit for 'heating and hot water'. I unclipped the timer/control UT2 and clipped the new dual channel receiver onto the back plate.
I setup rest of the Hive gear and its all up and running, except that the it doesn't start and run heating. Hot water works ok. I can access the thermostat from my phone and the internet and despite it saying heating is on (even if I set the temp to maximum) the boiler doesn't fire up.

The central heating light on the receiver lights up when expected but boiler not turning on.

Any ideas? I believe there isn't enough cores in the wires on the back plate as the UT2 is a single channel and doesn't control the heating but only hot water.

What I have noticed is that marked as number 4 on the new backplate for the receiver doesn't exist on the back of the UT2? I haven't changed the back plate to new one, old backplate has just been left and new receiver connected over onto it.
I've put batteries back in to the RC Plus, leaving all the new setup in situ, and when I turn temp up on RC Plus the boiler fires up and central heating kicks in! must be wiring needs re-configuring and I need to work out the missing cores at the old back panel of the UT2, any help appreciated please.

Is it possible to connect the new Dual channel receiver to the back panel of the Wr1? will this work?

Pictures here as I can't see a way to attach them to post HERE

Many Thanks in advance

HardwareGeek · 2 Dec 2015 at 18:46

Hard to say 100% what you have without seeing it, few different ways it could be wired but.....

Your old setup with the wireless controller switches a receiver to turn the heating on or off - you have missed this and left this wired in - it is most likely near the boiler or in the airing cupboard or even could have just replaced the old thermostat with it - it should look like this

Potentially if you have a Worcester Bosch it could be directly controlling a built in wireless receiver fitted into the front panel of the boiler itself.

Depending on how it was wired in the first place then you could just link this out put the wires in terminal 1 and 3 into the same terminal or for a better job unwire the old receiver and return the wiring to standard just working from the old programmer connections

Does your programmer wiring have a wire in terminal 4 for heating on? if so then linking out the old receiver will most likely work, if not they may have wired the receiver separately from the central heating wiring centre, or just moved the wire from terminal 4 to somewhere else to make it permanently live so you dont accidentally turn the heating off or could have just left the heating side on the programmer set to allday/on.

Code Breaker · 2 Dec 2015 at 18:58

Hi Thanks for the quick reply, Yes it has these items, I have just added a link to pictures of all the devices in the circuit.

Please would you clarify

Many Thanks again

HardwareGeek · 2 Dec 2015 at 19:09

Edit: thx just looking at pics - 2 mins

HardwareGeek · 2 Dec 2015 at 19:26

Pics of the wiring look a bit odd to me this will be a bigger job than just linking the receiver out because it looks like you dont have a wire in terminal 4 of your old programmer so the hive will have nothing to switch to turn they heating on, also looks abit odd as its has wires in terminal 1 hot water off linked to be permanently live and terminal 2 heating off.

It appears your system have been wired so that the old programmer just does water only and the receiver does heating and they are separate - the dual channel hive needs them all in 1 place to switch both - if you just wanted single channel hive for heating you could just replace the receiver only and keep the water on the old programmer

Just to clarify the receiver is next to the boiler? and the pics of the backplate are for the programmer in the airing cupoboard?

Code Breaker · 2 Dec 2015 at 19:29

Hi Yes the WR1 is next to the boiler downstairs in kitchen and the UT2 is airing cupboard next to hot water tank upstairs. Yes pictures of the back plate are in airing cupboard and is under old UT2

HardwareGeek · 2 Dec 2015 at 19:34

Does the wire from the WR1 go into the boiler? or up into the airing cupboard?

Where does the wire for the old UT2 go?

and do you have anything that looks like this or similar in your airing cupboard - its a junction box used for central heating wiring.

If everything goes into a central heating wiring centre like in the pic you could possibly wire the hive from there

Code Breaker · 2 Dec 2015 at 19:38

The BG idiots gave me a lot of hassle and then on last day when new boiler was fitted (nearly 3 years ago) said they could only fit the hot water on/off upstairs in cupboard. I was so fed up of them at the time that I told them to do it and get out. Now I am disabled and can't climb stairs very much, I decided to get dual channel Hive and fit it so I can turn hot water and heating on from my phone or PC.

I was told it would be a case of just removing the UT2 adn putting the receiver on and that's it , but the UT2 is a single channel and doesn't control the heating, the RC Plus controls the heating from the Hall downstairs.

Hope this shed light.

Yes WR1 goes into boiler, I don't know about the junction box, I'll go and take a look if you wouldn't mind waiting a minute.

HardwareGeek · 2 Dec 2015 at 19:48

Sorry to say but if they wired it separately from the start at installation it will probably require a lot of work to get the dual channel hive working, it may be possible with some alteration and re-jigging but might require new cables / partially rewiring if the correct connections aren't possible with the existing wiring - Think its time to get a professional in to take a look or return the hive or change to single channel and just have heating control and leave hot water on the old UT2

Code Breaker · 2 Dec 2015 at 19:50

I just added a picture of the junction box to the link to pictures

Code Breaker · 2 Dec 2015 at 19:53

The heating wasn't the problem, it is the hot water that's the big problem climbing stairs to turn it on/off. I mean currently I can use the hive to turn hot water on/off which is great, just wanted to add the heating to Hive making is fully functional as well as being able to use it while outdoors, and not having to use the RC Plus to control heating separately, also having the lovely looking bit of kit on the wall (Hive thermostat) doing nothing!

Code Breaker · 2 Dec 2015 at 19:55

Would you know if the new dual channel receiver can be wired up to the British Gas 330+ (Glow worm) directly eliminating rest of it and if so which/where on boiler wiring please

Many Thanks for all your help, appreciate it

HardwareGeek · 2 Dec 2015 at 20:06

Looks like you have a 3 port valve - the black cable - middle thinner white cable looks like the cylinder stat and thicker white cable on left should go to the UT2 from what i can see

Looks like it might be possible to alter it to remove the WR1 and convert the old UT2 wiring to control heating and water but its a job for a pro really as its really easy to make a total mess of altering central heating wiring.

Also it will depend on how the WR1 wiring joins this as i cant see in the pic and look like they might be using the sat terminal on the cylinder stat to control the valve (earth wire sleeve brown)

Sorry i cant help more, i am not a plumber / heating engineer sorry.

HardwareGeek · 2 Dec 2015 at 20:11

Code Breaker said:
Would you know if the new dual channel receiver can be wired up to the British Gas 330+ (Glow worm) directly eliminating rest of it and if so which/where on boiler wiring please

Many Thanks for all your help, appreciate it

Not possible to wire it directly as you have a hot water cylinder so the wiring needs to pass through this junction to control the valve and use the cylinder stat - might be possible to remove the WR1 completely and alter the wiring so everything can be controlled from the airing cupboard by just altering the connections in the junction box and the old UT2 backplate

ps. makes me suspicious why they didn't fit the WR1 next to the junction as normal as it would have been easier and neater unless it would have had bad signal in airing cupboard or wiring would be a pain to alter to do that

Code Breaker · 2 Dec 2015 at 20:20

Thank You VERY much for all your help, you've been a lot more help than a lot of other forums so far, with responses to 'call out engineer'

Only if I could get a diagram for each item.

Thanks once again for your time.

FlyingFish · 3 Dec 2015 at 07:11

Are you sure the hot water works correctly? Or just giving the impression it is? Cos the wires in your pictures of the back plate are not correct and your short of an extra wire to give you what you need (you could reallocate the earth wire, to do this job but that's proper bodge it). I would say it's very much beyond most people's diy skills, so get a professional in.

Mick

Code Breaker · 3 Dec 2015 at 08:31

FlyingFish said:
Are you sure the hot water works correctly? Or just giving the impression it is? Cos the wires in your pictures of the back plate are not correct and your short of an extra wire to give you what you need (you could reallocate the earth wire, to do this job but that's proper bodge it). I would say it's very much beyond most people's diy skills, so get a professional in.

Mick

Hi Mick, Thanks for taking the time to reply. Yes hot water is working fine. I had exactly the same idea of using the earth to make up the missing core but don't know the configuration to wire it up. Can't be any worse that the BG bodges and hassle I had for 2 years since the new boiler was installed.

Any one got any diagrams on the circuit and to where on the BG 330+ boiler these wires are meant to connect please?

Many Thanks

FlyingFish · 3 Dec 2015 at 09:13

The point I was making is that the backplate doesn't have the wires in the right place to operate the HW correctly. Even though it is giving the impression it is

You will most likely find this out as soon as you add the heating demand wire and start blowing fuses, or worse damaging electronics.
Although I'm not a fan of BG, they have, by the looks of things correctly wired the controls you had for the system you have. It's just not compatible in its current form to just clip the Hive straight on, as you've realised.

Why don't you just pay a heating professional for an hours labour to get it done right.

By pure coincidence, that's one of my jobs today. To fit a customer supplied Hive to their system

Mick

Code Breaker · 3 Dec 2015 at 09:22

Hi Mick, Thanks. The hot water is definitely working properly since I installed it on Tuesday. I'll consider that. Anyone in Walthamstow East London that can do this? and at what cost?

Code Breaker · 3 Dec 2015 at 13:19

FlyingFish said:
Are you sure the hot water works correctly? Or just giving the impression it is? Cos the wires in your pictures of the back plate are not correct and your short of an extra wire to give you what you need (you could reallocate the earth wire, to do this job but that's proper bodge it). I would say it's very much beyond most people's diy skills, so get a professional in.

Mick

Mick you cursed it lol, I swear the hot water was working properly via the Hive since Tuesday, (all family members have had several showers since!) today after speaking with you, it appears that when hot water is turned on via Hive, the heating radiators warm up slightly as well as the hot water, which is only getting luke warm and not getting fully hot despite boiler set at 65! what is going on I can't say :confused:

Put old UT2 back on and hot water is working as normal again.

Anyway trying to find someone local to pop over and have a look at it.