Poll: Is the 'gender pay gap' a real thing?

Should a woman with the same skill/experience doing the same role/hours be paid at the same rate as

  • Yes

    Votes: 127 66.1%

  • No

    Votes: 37 19.3%

  • I'm not sure

    Votes: 21 10.9%

  • No, but only because that answer suits me and not because it's right

    Votes: 7 3.6%
  • Total voters
    192
Gilly said:
Whilst I involved myself in someone else's argument, I do think endurance and being fast are different.

Completing an endurance race faster than someone else does indicate that you have more endurance and speed than they. That said, it doesn't mean you are necessarily faster in that you might not be able to achieve the same top speed as they, you can just carry an average better over a longer distance.

So in that, speed does not necessarily equal endurance.
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No you're right. Speed and endurance are different.

The next part you have been clever and changed the subjects around ;) - Originally we were deducing ones endurance from speed. i.e. saying that if one can run a marathon quicker then another, reducing their intensity to the pace of the slower individual would mean an improvement in endurance.

Now you talk about top speed. You are correct however.

Subtle but a big difference. ;)
 
Gilly said:
Whilst I involved myself in someone else's argument, I do think endurance and being fast are different.

Completing an endurance race faster than someone else does indicate that you have more endurance and speed than they. That said, it doesn't mean you are necessarily faster in that you might not be able to achieve the same top speed as they, you can just carry an average better over a longer distance.

So in that, speed does not necessarily equal endurance.
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And well proven by the tv show on at the moment. They had a 100m sprinter and were doing the beep test running up and down a pebbled beach. He was the first one out as his body isnt designed for endurance. He was been by a middle aged ex cricketer and a woman from memory.

However the woman went shortly afterwards despite being a pro athlete herself. The rugby player and rower went on for another 10 minutes.
 
balky12 said:
It was quite clear what he meant. It is still true though however badly you think he worded it. Men have better endurance than women in general.

Whilst it's not clear cut, you can deduce that if a bloke can run a marathon quicker than a women he probably has better endurance. i.e. if a bloke slows down to a woman's pace, he could most likely run further.
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From the women I know, they're better at running longer more slowly.

Sort of getting off the topic of a gender pay gap mind you.
 
"Should a woman with the same skill/experience doing the same role/hours be paid at the same rate as"

Depends. At my work place we have end of year appraisals with set objectives. Those that can show with evidence that they have exceeded their objectives get a bigger % pay rise than those that have met them. So skill/experience and role/hours can be the same but people still get different rates of pay
 
Slight bump on this one as the ONS info for 2015 has came up with a section devoted to the "Gender Pay Gap" - http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/ashe/...ults/stb-ashe.html#tab-Gender-pay-differences

From this, the following has been stated:

  • Men, on average, work more hours than women both before and after overtime is included
  • The results do NOT show the differences in pay rates FOR COMPARABLE JOBS (takes all jobs as a collective)
  • All part time workers earn less per hour than their full time counterparts irrespective of gender
  • For Part Time - Women are paid more on average

So what do people make of this? To me, the figures are unreliable at best. They state that they do not compare like for like jobs but, instead, take an overall approach and even state that a higher proportion of women work in lower paid jobs e.g. admin, caring etc. This can only skew the figures.

Before anyone (hurfdurf I am looking at you) starts stating I am being misogynistic etc, be aware I completely support equal pay but only for the same job.


So is the gender pay gap now a myth?
Is there a reason (political or otherwise) for the ONS to put up a pretty poor report full of holes?


I leave this in GD's hands :p
 
A female life is worth two male life's, so equal pay or slightly more, means females are being under paid, the march through the institutions carry's on sisters!
 
ONS said:
It should be noted that the figures do not show differences in rates of pay for comparable jobs, as they are affected by factors such as the proportion of men and women in different occupations. For example, a higher proportion of women work in occupations such as administration and caring, that tend to offer lower salaries.
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They've been pretty open about the limitations of the report.
 
In the NHS and the band system - no but I don't know what Clinicians get paid.

When I worked on a factory for 27 years there was a gender pay gap but was resolved by letting women have the opportunity to work on the assembly lines.
Those that could keep up with the men got the same pay but there was only about 10 of them in a factory of 2,500.
 
Richie said:
[*]The results do NOT show the differences in pay rates FOR COMPARABLE JOBS (takes all jobs as a collective)
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Unless you are comparing like for like it can't be claimed one gender earns more than the other. For me this is the entire crux of the argument of inequality. Female in position X earns £Y, male in same position X earns £Y+Z.
Pointless stats.
 
Richie said:
So is the gender pay gap now a myth?
Is there a reason (political or otherwise) for the ONS to put up a pretty poor report full of holes?


I leave this in GD's hands :p
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You should check your privilege, leaving this in the hands of a mostly white cis male forum is basically rape....

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No such a thing as a gender pay gap, its a fallacy created by social ljustice warriors or professional cry bullies to add yet another oppertunity for grown ups to beat them with logic.
 
Anyone who actually has a job knows 50% of women who have kids take 1-2 years off then either move to part time hours or take so much time off due to the kids that they may as well be working part time. That is literally the reason there's a pay gap. It's completely illegal to pay someone a different amount for the same job and would never happen at a company that doesn't want to be sued
 
CREATIVE!11 said:
Yep.

Thing is though it's not actively trying to be sexist I say this all the time... but if stating that there are clear differences and both sexes have different strengths / weaknesses then yes I'm sexist.

For example woman can give birth, I can't. Do I cry about it? no.... I'm also terrible with children, I hate them and can't deal with them. Woman make it seem so easy etc etc....I think of myself as quite empathetic though but that is due to personal experience.

Just random loose examples.
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I know a woman who's a copper. She's 6'1", strongly built and in excellent condition. If need be, she could kick in a normal door, break open a stronger door with a ram and so on, i.e. the examples given in the post you replied to.

Yes, you are sexist. You're sexist because you're viewing humanity as two entities ("men" and "women") rather than as people.

There are tendencies towards differences, but those are statistical and should never be applied to an individual. For almost all of those tendencies, it's not even clear how much is nature and how much is nurture. For many of those tendencies, it's not even clear if they exist at all other than in the imagination of some people.

I'll try to explain how wrong and silly it is to apply tendencies to individuals by using the clearest example of a tendency that is real, is inherent in nature and not at all caused by socialisation and which is a strong tendency. If applying tendencies to individuals made any sense at all, it would make most sense with this example.

The average height of men in the UK is 5 feet 9.5 inches. Should every man have to wear only clothes of the right size for a person 5 feet 9.5 inches tall, regardless of his height?

The average height of women in the UK is 5 feet 4.5 inches. Should every woman have to wear only clothes of the right size for a person 5 feet 4.5 inches tall, regardless of her height?

That's the example for which it would make the most sense...and it's still wrong and silly.

The answer which isn't wrong and silly is to use standards relevant to the position and judge every applicant against those standards on an individual basis.
 
Roar87 said:
It's completely illegal to pay someone a different amount for the same job and would never happen at a company that doesn't want to be sued
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Err, No it isn't :confused:

As long as you are not being discriminatory on the grounds of age, race or gender you can pay employees different rates for the same job.
 
Freakbro said:
Err, No it isn't :confused:

As long as you are not being discriminatory on the grounds of age, race or gender you can pay employees different rates for the same job.
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I think what he meant to say was its illegal to pay someone more or less solely based upon the sex of the person
 
Dis86 said:
Angilion, that was a terribly contradictory post!
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If you really think so, you can point out the contradictions you see.

I don't see any contradictions at all, so unless you can point out the contradictions you see I can't either explain why you're wrong or acknowledge that I'm wrong.
 
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