Miserable People and Rights of Way

Soldato
Joined
22 Oct 2002
Posts
8,688
Location
Near Cheltenham
I cycle into work as/when I can, and I will say that generally I try to be as courteous a cyclist as I can..

However there seems to be absolutely no pleasing some people...

I take a detour when cycling to get me off the main road, it's quieter, it's slightly longer, but far more relaxing (or so you'd think).

Anyway, there is one part of the journey that is a bit odd..

There is a road through an small estate that they closed off a few years ago to stop 'through' traffic from using it as a cut-through, but just put bollards in the way which allows cyclists etc to get through..

Obligatory Images:
The view as I approach on the cycle.. I am the white line going straight on along Sandycroft Road, the issue is cars coming from the road on the left (Leacey Crescent)(cars path shown in blue).

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Obviously you can see that as a cyclist, there is a bit of a risk point if you want to carry on through the bollards, and you have to be very mindful of cars coming out of Leacey Crescent.

As a rule, I naturally give way to cars coming out that road, primarily as ignoring any highway code rules, it'd hurt if we clashed! So I slow down, wait for them to pass, then carry straight on..

However, there is one driver who 3 times now that absolutely is the most miserable sod I've come across that just being on that stretch of road on a cycle has them on the horn and getting all irate..

This morning, I had enough, I was overtaking parked cars before the junction when they screamed out Leacey crescent pretty quickly , I slowed down but being already 3/4 the way alongside a load of parked cars, clearly I have nowhere to go, but they still tried to squeeze me into the cars, and blasted the horn..

I turned around and went after them, knowing the traffic is backed up, they couldn't get away too quickly!.. It turns out to be a youngish woman who clearly is quite a miserable git, trying to blank me at first, but I wasn't being overly aggressive, just wanting to know what their problem actually is.. in the end she engaged in conversation which was not unsurprising, she just quoted that there are no give way lines as some justification for being belligerent.. I know that in the past if you arrive at that junction just as a car approaches, there is a bit of uncertainty and I've had to swerve away to the right to ensure I don't get in their path, or stop dead and move far left as they don't always see you, so I understand it's not always so easy from either party..

So, what say OCUK?

My own feeling is, that since I don't assume right of way going straight on, and can see that it's a conflict of each road users intentions at that 'junction', that some common sense should be used, the mere fact the road has been left open and only bollards have been placed there is clear indication its meant to be used by cyclists, which means that with no giveway markings, that doesn't absolve everyone from blindly driving along, both parties need to show caution and when you can't see clearly if cars or cyclists are approaching, slow down and be sensible.. if I am just crossing that junction as you approach, slow down and let me by, as I do when it's reversed..

I'm more shocked that rather than show some common sense, there are people that would happily run you over and go out of their way to make a point just because they feel you are in the wrong and they are in the right.
 
I would say being cautious is best as you already are. They are two different roads so traffic should be giving way to the other road. I.e. Traffic on leacy should be carefully entering sandycroft and giving way. I say get a go pro or some other camera set up and catch her driving liking an idiot.
 
I turned around and went after them, knowing the traffic is backed up, they couldn't get away too quickly!.. It turns out to be a youngish woman

Lol, surprised you don't have a camera.

The most logical thing would be to go on to the right side pavement, cross the bollards then back onto the road. Unless you're taking the road to prove a point?
 
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Personally (as a cyclist too) I'd be tempted to hop on to the pavement before the turn and then back onto the roads at the next dropped kerb after the bollards...


Other options include get a camera and be one of those Youtube holier than thou people...
 
I said that with no "attitude", the point im making is if someone in a car has got it in for you, best get out the way before you get hurt, because getting run over is really gonna suck.
 
It's your right of way, since they're joining your road from a minor road. Your road doesn't end there, it's just not open to cars.

In reality, you are the one with most interest in not being run over, so will have to allow for drivers.
 
I always run by the rule always give way to the thing that would kill you.

Anyway its not like you are going full speed then slamming the anchors on (which I see a lot)
 
Tricky one that as there are no road markings and simpletons like the woman you describe have poor observational skills and seemingly have no regard for others.
 
Personally I'd treat the introduction of the bollards as a change of junction layout, effectively turning the conventional T-Junction into a corner with a right turn on the outside of it. As such I'd treat the "straight-on" route as a right turn and, given the limited visibility, I'd expect to have to stop to ensure the way is clear before proceding to cross the other carriageway.
 
Personally I'd treat the introduction of the bollards as a change of junction layout, effectively turning the conventional T-Junction into a corner with a right turn on the outside of it. As such I'd treat the "straight-on" route as a right turn and, given the limited visibility, I'd expect to have to stop to ensure the way is clear before proceding to cross the other carriageway.

This. It is you OP who should be giving way to cars. You are making a right turn across traffic.

As Kaiowas says, I would assume give way markings at that T junction have been scrubbed away ( I can't see any on the picture you have shown us) so it is now just a corner. Look at google maps: there are give way markings on all other t junctions. You are assuming it is a junction when in fact it is now a road that bend around a corner.

"you have to be very mindful of cars coming out of Leacey Crescent" - yes you do as you should be stopping and make sure it is safe for you make that right turn across traffic :p
 
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Put 'right or wrong or 'right of way' to the back of your mind and make how to stay safe your priority. In this case, giving way to the cars not only is the right thing to do, it is also the safest.
 
Personally I'd treat the introduction of the bollards as a change of junction layout, effectively turning the conventional T-Junction into a corner with a right turn on the outside of it. As such I'd treat the "straight-on" route as a right turn and, given the limited visibility, I'd expect to have to stop to ensure the way is clear before proceding to cross the other carriageway.

This. Hop onto the pavement on the right and come off after the bollards or just continue as normal and expect horns and avoiding blind careless drivers as a daily experience.
 
This. It is you OP who should be giving way to cars. You are making a right turn across traffic.

As Kaiowas says, I would assume give way markings at that T junction have been scrubbed away ( I can't see any on the picture you have shown us) so it is now just a corner. Look at google maps: there are give way markings on all other t junctions. You are assuming it is a junction when in fact it is now a road that bend around a corner.

"you have to be very mindful of cars coming out of Leacey Crescent" - yes you do as you should be stopping and make sure it is safe for you make that right turn across traffic :p

It's your right of way, since they're joining your road from a minor road. Your road doesn't end there, it's just not open to cars.

In reality, you are the one with most interest in not being run over, so will have to allow for drivers.

Cheesyboy is correct here. Whilst I agree that pragmatically cyclists should give way, technically the cyclist has right of way as the road continues and Leacey Ct is a minor road junction. Whilst there are no give way lines, the change in road name and the continuation of Sandycroft road shows priority.

I'd suggest the OP contacts the council to paint some give way lines for cycle safety to avoid any confusion.
 
Thanks for the replies!

I always give way to cars coming out that junction , purely as right of way is not worth considering over my own safety.. inevitably though you might be just at that junction and a car is coming towards it, which makes it awkward. I would pop on the pavement, but there are quite a few dog walkers out in a morning which make it a little difficult, not to mention illegal.

I will try to contact the council, it seems a bad design since the bollarded section is still at road level, and with no markings makes it a free for all at best... Why they didn't put a giveway sign, or make the bollarded section part of the pavement, I don't know!
 
I will try to contact the council, it seems a bad design since the bollarded section is still at road level, and with no markings makes it a free for all at best... Why they didn't put a giveway sign, or make the bollarded section part of the pavement, I don't know!

Make sure you frame it as a cycle safety issue.
 
Cheesyboy is correct here. Whilst I agree that pragmatically cyclists should give way, technically the cyclist has right of way as the road continues and Leacey Ct is a minor road junction. Whilst there are no give way lines, the change in road name and the continuation of Sandycroft road shows priority.

I'd suggest the OP contacts the council to paint some give way lines for cycle safety to avoid any confusion.

I'd say its 50:50

but does the "road" really continue when it goes to the bollards - just because its the same name afterwards doesn't mean its a continuous road
 
Cheesyboy is correct here. Whilst I agree that pragmatically cyclists should give way, technically the cyclist has right of way as the road continues and Leacey Ct is a minor road junction. Whilst there are no give way lines, the change in road name and the continuation of Sandycroft road shows priority.

I'd suggest the OP contacts the council to paint some give way lines for cycle safety to avoid any confusion.

Are you sure?

If you look, every single other junction like that has the correct give way markings. In fact i would bet that give way markings were actually there and have been removed to make it a turn in the road instead of a junction.

Just because it is a different road name surely means nothing? There are plenty of instances where roads lead onto other roads with different names and have no junction. Likewise, Sandycroft Road continuing after the bollards doesn't mean anything in terms of junctions/where one should give way.
 
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