Public Sector

Richeh said:
Job security, flexible working and no interest in the potential dog eat dog nature of private sector work I expect are high on most peoples list. And if you have already put reasonable time into the Public Sector a lot won't want to lose out on the pension.
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So stop moaning about the money then is my point as a general point no aimed at anyone other than those moaning. You get paid less because you don't face the same pressures, goes with the territory and again, points to the underlaying issue faced by the public sector. The mindset is different, the attitude is different and broadly the work ethic is different.

To the OP's question, yes, they are different.
 
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wordy said:
You don't think redundancy is stressful or putting pressure on people?

Housey's 1st post said



Then....


So he's agreeing there is the pressure of potential job losses for most LA workers, just the same as a private sector employee.
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You TOTALLY missed my point. I am saying the pressures are different, they are significantly more in most private sector roles than local government. What I am saying is job security is one pressure everyone faces so can be assumed applies to all, but only recently to the public sector.

Clear?
 
I did a contract at the NHS for 1 yr and couldn't take any more so turned them down at renewal. My experience was:

At 28 I was probably the youngest person on the whole floor. Everyone else was 40+. 2 of the people I worked with who made reports for all the surrounding clinics were actually pensioners. One of the women was about 50.

The people producing the reports didn't actually have decent IT skills and didn't know how to write SQL or use SQL Server. They just used some saved reports and modified the filters, so it took ages to explain anything technical to them.

Soon after I started they hired a severly obese Nigerian guy to work on Sharepoint. He sat next to me and on his 2nd day he just disappeared for most of the day. His manager went around the building checking the toilets since we thought he had a heart attack or something. Eventually he showed up and claimed he got lost, even though this was in London and our building was unmissable, you could ask anyone and they could give directions.

Then he started sleeping for most of the day at work, at his desk. He would just fall asleep while sitting there and start snoring. I would look around like "Is this real life?" and people would just laugh. He also ate sandwiches and crisps at his desk every day so the thing was disgusting with crumbs everywere and in the keyboard. He continued to sleep for most of the day for the majority of his time there, or he would just not turn up for work and not bother to tell his manager. The result was his manager ended up having to do all the Sharepoint work himself. I asked my manager how this guy was still employed and he was dumbfounded too. Out of every week he probably only showed up about 3/5 days.

I overheard some guys talking and apparently in order to keep getting the same budget every year they have to spend all of it, so the previous year they just bought all the managers iPads to get rid of the money. Nice use of our taxes there...

The stuff I ended up working one was just some vanity project for one of the managers. No-one else actually wanted it, but this guy had somehow already spent the money on getting licences for the software, so they wanted someone to actually produce something with it (all kinds of politics going on with those managers and backbiting. One of the managers actually refused to work with this guy anymore, it was super awkward).

As soon as my contract was up I was out of there. No idea if they actually ended up using the dashboards I made since like I said, no-one seemed to have a clue about it there. At least I got some work for a year out of it :p

Edit: Also, when I left after 1 year, the sleeping guy was still working there.
 
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Housey said:
You TOTALLY missed my point. I am saying the pressures are different, they are significantly more in most private sector roles than local government. What I am saying is job security is one pressure everyone faces so can be assumed applies to all, but only recently to the public sector.

Clear?
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no, you said....

Housey said:
.... i also have many friends who i grew up who took the local government approach and as we close in our 50's they are still there, doing the same thing, happy with their lives but under zero REAL pressure.
Reading that last line again, perhaps they have it right.
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You seem to be missing the point & you typed it!

The threat of redundancy that LA employees are facing is a very real pressure, whether it's recent, or not or whether private sector employee face it or not. It's there & it isn't going away.
 
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So you don't want to accept my clarification you would prefer to argue about your interpretation of what I meant. Forgive me if I move on.
 
Housey said:
So you don't want to accept my clarification you would prefer to argue about your interpretation of what I meant. Forgive me if I move on.
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You weren't clarifying anything you were arguing.

Forgiven, I shall do the same.
 
Housey said:
So stop moaning about the money then is my point as a general point no aimed at anyone other than those moaning. You get paid less because you don't face the same pressures, goes with the territory and again, points to the underlaying issue faced by the public sector. The mindset is different, the attitude is different and broadly the work ethic is different.

To the OP's question, yes, they are different.
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I do agree the perks make up partly for the lower pay. But as mentioned previously, these are being bought in line with the private sector whilst the pay is remaining at 1% for the next 4 years and has done for the past 5 (in my particular part). I do also think the private sector does offer enough perks in certain areas to add weight to that side of the scale as well.

And regarding the pressures we face, i'm not sure anyone should really have to face the potential for people to be stabbing you in the back for a promotion etc (we just get completely standardised testing for promotions across all departments) but pressures in the job are very real and as I previously mentioned a lot of phone calls (at grunt level) that most people I talk to flat out tell me they wouldn't be able to do. The pressures may be different but they are there. Not even counting performance based pressures.

I know several people in my organisation that shouldn't be there, live to pick a fight about some policy and actively try to do as little work as possible. Most are just your normal average person trying to get through the day. A few years ago the compulsive moaners would be moaning for the sake of it about reasonable cuts or changes to T&C's but the reason its a lot more prevalent nowadays is because the average grunt's in the public sector are facing cuts, freezes that are going to significantly affect their ability to manage their lives and by the end looks to be worse off than the private sector. Not everyone can jump ship to the private sector, there aren't enough jobs to go around.
 
Freefaller said:
Agreed. I'm currently working within a public sector environment and that has been my experience and thoughts 100%.

Whilst the pay isn't as good as it was in the private sector (I took a fair pay cut coming into this role) the overall benefits are hugely better for a person at my band/level that wouldn't be recognised at the same level in the private sector.

I also think the work life balance is a lot better. Sure you get people that take the mickey, but you get that in every environment, it is also a much less dog-eat-dog atmosphere. I had to put in silly hours in my previous role in a large FTSE100 for little gain or reward, and all because people would be quick to stab you in the back because they wanted your job, or you had to be aggressive to get the next promotion - no thanks. At least where I am for the moment, I can work hard, enjoy flexible working hours, but feel secure and be in a collaborative environment.

Thing is, you get good and bad in both. Of course you get the long term staff that enjoy their packages and do the bare minimum, but you get those who are passionate about their roles and do it because they love it. Although I don't get pay rises (well nothing significant) or bonuses, I can live with that as I get a lot of other things. I like the Ts and Cs, I don't exploit them as I have no need (I don't get sick for example) - but I'm not resting on my laurels, I work hard, and I've been recognised as such, which has offered opportunities.

You can achieve big things in both sectors, they are just different approaches. I'm not after aggressive working environments that reward highly. I'd rather be rewarded moderately, but able to enjoy life more. But money/career is less important to me than life.
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I think a key element is what the landscape is going to look like in 2-3 years time. What is the draw of public sector employment when you're on £10k less than you could be on and all of the perks are gone?
 
I doubt I will still be in that sector in 2-3 years time, but you make a good point, it becomes less attractive. I guess the "job for life" thing appeals to many, but the main things people enjoy, pensions, decent holidays and good work hours, healthcare etc... are a big comfort blanket to many. I have to say it will be a shock coming away from it as and when I do (When the project is over), but the experience has been eye opening and thoroughly useful in my opinion. I think I'd get bored if I stayed in this environment for more than 5 years, whilst I, personally, am not hugely career and money focussed, I do like a job that challenges me and that I feel is rewarding. My current role still ticks those boxes, but by the end of the year I'll be hunting back in the private sector I reckon.
 
I work in a central government department and recognise a lot of the issues mentioned above.

I think one of our biggest problems is pay and performance. For standard administration type roles I think when you factor in the perks we are pretty competitive with the private sector. Where we fall down is when we start looking at specialists (lawyers, procurement experts, accountants, IT specialists etc), we don't pay enough in these areas and there is a very obvious brain drain now occurring.

This problem is particularly bad in legal and complex procurement where anyone who is any good will leave after a few years service for the private sector. Not being able to retain quality staff in these areas is why the private sector can run rings round us in terms of getting competitive prices in procurement exercises and then forcing them to deliver what we think we have asked for.

There is no one in my department with contractual pay progression. There is an annual pay settlement (1%) for those who aren't marked as poor performers but this is discretionary the only other method of obtaining a pay rise is to achieve promotion. When I worked in the private sector I was able to have a discussion with my boss about my salary on an annual basis and negotiate a pay rise, this isn't possible in the public sector.

In terms of perks we have flexi-time, a decent pension (though not as good as it was) and a good work life balance.

It appears to be almost impossible to sack poor performers even if all procedures are followed. There doesn't appear to be any kind of support provided to line management in these scenarios and a culture of not confronting issues. Until fairly recently it was common to recommend poor performers for promotion to get them to move on.

Government departments also have to contend with the fact that they are run by politicians whose priorities can often shift. Politics is an exercise in fighting whatever fire comes up on a given day to maintain a public perception of competence and ensure re-election. If your departments ministers need to change focus quickly then this results in a quick shift in departmental priorities which can make things less efficient. It's also worth noting that since ministers are motivated by the need to be re-elected their decision say not always line up with the most effective or efficient way of delivering something.

Over the last few years our department has shrunk in terms of resources but there hasn't been a corresponding drop in the amount of work we are expected to deliver. This has led to a lot of pressure at work, more so for those of us who try to work hard and may be carrying other poor performers.

Over the next few years there are going to be almost annual redundancies to meet central requirements, continued below inflation pay rises (in theory) and an increase in workload pressure. I wouldn't be suprised to see people start to crack. I am looking to leave in the medium term because I think with the widening of the pay gap and the further expected reduction in benefits that it is no longer worth it.
 
Gigabit said:
The theory that big companies are automatically **** is just ******** I'm afraid.
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you don't have to go far to see the endless complaints about big private sector energy firms, banks, public transport or telecommunications

by trying to cut costs to make maximum profit they deliver no better a service than the bin men collecting your bin
 
This entire thread is hilarious. You can't generalise accross the entire public and private sectors.

I do like the attempt to call the public sector lazy because one person worked with a fat and lazy Nigerian.

Classic ocuk
 
In my experience the public sector seems to be a bit slower moving but much more consistent than private sector. Personalities and relationships matter a lot in the private sector, more than they should in my opinion.

In terms of (in)competence I've not seen any difference between sectors. Some are good, some are bad, it really comes down to the culture of the specific organisation. There really is no consistency between either. There are lots of people who haven't worked on the other side of the fence, or in-house or outsource, that have strong, incorrect opinions about the other side. It's all much of a muchness really.

I will say that Legal and Healthcare industries are a ******* nightmare to work with. The NHS isn't that bad compared to some of the sheer stupidity I've seen in private practices.
 
I used to work for the public sector several years ago and my experience was that people on permanent contracts were quite lazy who were quite content with their lot in life whilst those on fixed term contracts were the active go-getters who would sort out large messes and push to get the work done on time. Unfortunately back in 2010 I like all the fixed termer's were made redundant because of government cut backs so I have no idea how that place has survived or continued to meet targets.

What I can reflect on since working in the private sector since is that there were no incentives for pushing the boundaries and there were no formal disciplinary procedures for those who would take the mick. There were also no formal daily or weekly targets, there was just an end of year percentage to meet, most of which was done by fancy computer systems.

I don't know what it's like now, but I recently tried to apply for an EO role at the HMRC and I can tell you that the application process was a joke. I submitted my CV and was asked to do two sets of online quizzes. The first was a basic situational test, a bit rubbish with obvious answers and the second was a maths test with random questions not related to the role. I'm not great at maths so I had to write and jot down notes and trying to do twenty questions in twenty minutes was all but impossible, especially when some of the questions were like, "If Mike travels at 20mph for forty minutes how long will it take him to cover fifteen miles", and stuff like that which was not relevant to the role I was applying for. By the end I was running out of time and randomly selected answers which meant I failed the test, so I probably won't be working for them again with ridiculous tests like that. And I have an IT degree so I'm not some moron who failed all his GCSE's and has lived his life on benefits. (Sorry if that turned into an angry rant).
 
The Flying Phil said:
I don't know what it's like now, but I recently tried to apply for an EO role at the HMRC and I can tell you that the application process was a joke. I submitted my CV and was asked to do two sets of online quizzes. The first was a basic situational test, a bit rubbish with obvious answers and the second was a maths test with random questions not related to the role. I'm not great at maths so I had to write and jot down notes and trying to do twenty questions in twenty minutes was all but impossible, especially when some of the questions were like, "If Mike travels at 20mph for forty minutes how long will it take him to cover fifteen miles", and stuff like that which was not relevant to the role I was applying for. By the end I was running out of time and randomly selected answers which meant I failed the test, so I probably won't be working for them again with ridiculous tests like that. And I have an IT degree so I'm not some moron who failed all his GCSE's and has lived his life on benefits. (Sorry if that turned into an angry rant).
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What was the role in HMRC, btw ?
 
Yamahahahahaha said:
In my experience the public sector seems to be a bit slower moving but much more consistent than private sector. Personalities and relationships matter a lot in the private sector, more than they should in my opinion.
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Due to the general size of many public sector organisations, and the need to ensure good governance around spend, they almost exclusively follow a bureaucratic organisational structure. One of the characteristics of which is a longer lead time in decision making and deployment.

The nature of the beast, incredibly frustrating when you've got a good idea you want to get off the ground, especially when the management, regardless of their competence, are quite ingrained in the process. The phrase "let's set it within a project board framework" now gives me chills.
 
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