Exclusive – Nvidia Talks GameWoks And DirectX 12 Plans For 2016

[thebennyboy]

GameWorks is only used in poorly optimised games, so if it has GameWorks in it you can probably bet it's not going to be very well optimised.

People don't buy Nvidia cards because it comes with GameWorks, they buy them because it's a name they "trust" so to speak. AMD's market share can only really improve from this point onwards. I'm interested to see how well AMD's competitor to GameWorks turns out, if they do a good job with it the first time round i can see it really hitting Nvidia where it hurts. If it is well optimised and remains an open-source alternative to GameWorks then hopefully Nvidia will at least make more of an attempt to optimised GameWorks, right now it is not well optimised at all for both AMD or Nvidia.

I look forward to hopefully seeing more game with both GPUOpen AND GameWorks implemented, i think times ahead are looking good if AMD can really push GPUOpen.

 

[FuryXGuy]

Were talking about Gameworks. It doesnt belong to AMD, you cant use it.



Doesnt matter what I think. Nvidia have closed off their tech, like it or not thats the way it is. AMD owners qq'ing about it reeks of jealousy.

I dont know why AMD are letting anyone do anything. AMD are the queens of open source because if they are not, no-one would use what they make/create/develop/buy, its very uninteresting/uninspiring.

One thing for sure though, NVidia owners would never demolish a thread qq'ing about AMD not allowing Nvidia to see TressFX code.

So, you would prefer a market where only a X, Y and Z game works well with only certain vendors?

So, in other words you prefer the fragmentation of the PC Games market?

 

[Final8y]

So, you would prefer a market where only a X, Y and Z game works well with only certain vendors?

So, in other words you prefer the fragmentation of the PC Games market?

Some prefer fragmentation, tribalism, it makes them feel special.

 

[FuryXGuy]

Your arguing your own argument that was Amd having mantle did not hamper nvidia!

Problem is that AMD did offer Mantle to nVidia. They refused to accept it. Mantle is opensource like most of what AMD does. Whereas with GameWorks they refuse to show code so AMD could optimize their hardware for GameWorks.

 

[triss]

Problem is that AMD did offer Mantle to nVidia. They refused to accept it. Mantle is opensource like most of what AMD does. Whereas with GameWorks they refuse to show code so AMD could optimize their hardware for GameWorks.

Got a source for this?


I thought while it was in Beta form AMD didnt offer it to anyone as such

I'm not fan of closed system but if a game if going to be released and one side or the other wish's to add features/IQ improvements that wouldn't otherwise be in that game then fair play imo to them for locking it to that vendor as they did the work for it

 

[FuryXGuy]

Got a source for this?


I thought while it was in Beta form AMD didnt offer it to anyone as such

I'm not fan of closed system but if a game if going to be released and one side or the other wish's to add features/IQ improvements that wouldn't otherwise be in that game then fair play imo to them for locking it to that vendor as they did the work for it

Regardless. The topic is irrelevant as Mantle is now part of Vulkan which is open source. If they had made GameWorks library open like Vulkan then the problem would be easily solved.

AMD could go about optimizing their GPUs to work better with Game Works title.

 

[Ian Evey]

Problem is that AMD did offer Mantle to nVidia. They refused to accept it. Mantle is opensource like most of what AMD does. Whereas with GameWorks they refuse to show code so AMD could optimize their hardware for GameWorks.

Do you think if nvidia said to Amd "you can optimise our gameworks how you see fit, Here is the source so you can optimise it" That Amd would be happy using nvidia created libraries in games.

Or do you think Amd would have "free works" if they could?

Amd might moan about poor performance but I have not seen Amd say it's not fair that nvidia has gameworks, only forum users say that.

 

[bru]

So, you would prefer a market where only a X, Y and Z game works well with only certain vendors?

So, in other words you prefer the fragmentation of the PC Games market?

LOL he has just told you and you have even quoted him.

Doesnt matter what I think. Nvidia have closed off their tech, like it or not thats the way it is.

Problem is that AMD did offer Mantle to nVidia. They refused to accept it.

Source ?

From a Robert Hallock interview with Gaming bolt.

http://gamingbolt.com/the-big-interview-amds-robert-hallock-on-mantle-directx-12-ps4xbox-one-free-sync-and-more

Rashid Sayed: Switching back to Mantle once again, Intel had approached for access to API. Is there any progress on that front?

Robert Hallock: Other IHVs will receive access when we exit beta and make the API public for download. Any IHV will be able to create a Mantle solution for themselves, and it is on them to decide whether or not they want to catch up to AMD in the area of low-overhead, high-throughput and incredibly efficient graphics workloads. At this time, though, Mantle is still being privately developed by AMD and nearly 100 ISVs.

AMD have still not released Mantle to the public.

 

[FuryXGuy]

Do you think if nvidia said to Amd "you can optimise our gameworks how you see fit, Here is the source so you can optimise it" That Amd would be happy using nvidia created libraries in games.

Or do you think Amd would have "free works" if they could?

Amd might moan about poor performance but I have not seen Amd say it's not fair that nvidia has gameworks, only forum users say that.

It's not about AMD saying it's not fair to use Gameworks. They have a problem with not being able to see the code to optimize Gameworks titles as the code is a "black box". Do you see nVidia complaining about TressFX? No. Because they are able to view the contents of the code and as such they are now able to optimize their GPUs to run tressfx well.

This wouldn't be an issue if nVidia had simple allowed their GameWorks features that are implemented in games to be able to be viewed at the code level so they can optimize their GPUs.

 

[triss]

Regardless. The topic is irrelevant as Mantle is now part of Vulkan which is open source. If they had made GameWorks library open like Vulkan then the problem would be easily solved.

AMD could go about optimizing their GPUs to work better with Game Works title.

Video doesnt work for me,, If the topic was irrelevant why did you bring it up then?

From how i see it,, and most my cards are from amd btw

Amd makes some really nice stuff but then they pass it off for others to do the work and say yes its open source we are helping everyone which is great if it carries on going forwards and is supported

Nvidia do a lot of closed stuff which is nice looking effect wise , they allow others to use it sometimes but at a performance cost but they carry on supporting there own users,( yes older cards sometimes seem to get overlooked/shafted )

Other the console market i have to say this business model and market share is doing much better for Nvidia then AMD and while i dont really like closed systems it might well be something long term AMD should look at so their users get a benefit over nvidia's in games

 

[FuryXGuy]

AMD have still not released Mantle to the public.

False. Mantle is now Vulkan and part of the Khronos group. They have even stated to develop games using Vulkan. Anyone can use Vulkan.

 

[FuryXGuy]

Video doesnt work for me,, If the topic was irrelevant why did you bring it up then?

From how i see it,, and most my cards are from amd btw

Amd makes some really nice stuff but then they pass it off for others to do the work and say yes its open source we are helping everyone which is great if it carries on going forwards and is supported

Nvidia do a lot of closed stuff which is nice looking effect wise , they allow others to use it sometimes but at a performance cost but they carry on supporting there own users,( yes older cards sometimes seem to get overlooked/shafted )

Other the console market i have to say this business model and market share is doing much better for Nvidia then AMD and while i dont really like closed systems it might well be something long term AMD should look at so their users get a benefit over nvidia's in games

Actually someone else brought up Mantle. I was merely pointing out that Mantle is now part of Vulkan which is opensource. So, you can't use that argument against AMD as Vulkan is for everyone to use.

 

[tommybhoy]

AMD have still not released Mantle to the public.

False. Mantle is now Vulkan and part of the Khronos group.

Mantle was AMD exclusive while in Beta, problem being it never left Beta and no one else got access.

Instead of Mantle hitting 1.0, they handed it over for Khronos to do the hard work and finish off what they started.

That's the problem with AMD, full of talk and next to no action, I fear GPUOpen will follow on in the same footsteps...

Happy to be proved wrong though.

 

[Howling]

They do seem to come up with ideas, make a "proof of concept" / groundwork - then pass it off. But I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing, rather work get put out in the Zeitgeist than locked in a box away from prying eyes, even unfinished work.

 

[tommybhoy]

To be fair, I think the well dried up and Mantle got the axe, shame too as it was amazing and could have changed things for the better if it got to 1.0, it would certainly have taken some of the sting from GW's.

Edit-They were true as their word and gave us FreeSync so can't complain too hard.

 

[bru]

False. Mantle is now Vulkan and part of the Khronos group. They have even stated to develop games using Vulkan. Anyone can use Vulkan.

Please provide us with a link where we can download Mantle then please, or even Vulkan if you are really going to insist that Mantle is vulkan in its entirety, with nothing added or taken away.

Oh you cannot because even Vulkan hasn't been released to the public yet.

Vulkan Working Group Update - December 18th 2015

We have some good news and some bad news. The year-end target release date for Vulkan will not be met. However, we are in the home stretch and the release of Vulkan 1.0 is imminent!

Source

 

[triss]

Actually someone else brought up Mantle. I was merely pointing out that Mantle is now part of Vulkan which is opensource. So, you can't use that argument against AMD as Vulkan is for everyone to use.

Problem is that AMD did offer Mantle to nVidia. They refused to accept it

No you didnt just point out mantle was part of Vulkan
You made a claim if was offered to Nvidia who rejected it thats why people asked for a source

Nvidia irrc are working with Vulkan so that cant be used as Nvidia refusing it if mantles part of Vulkan

 

[FuryXGuy]

Mantle was AMD exclusive while in Beta, problem being it never left Beta and no one else got access.

Instead of Mantle hitting 1.0, they handed it over for Khronos to do the hard work and finish off what they started.

That's the problem with AMD, full of talk and next to no action, I fear GPUOpen will follow on in the same footsteps...

Happy to be proved wrong though.

I wouldn't release anything Beta to anyone else either. There is nothing wrong with that. Whereas with Gameworks it's long past the "beta" stage.

Ultimately it's going to be open source. Either way you look it at it's a good thing.

With GPUOpen I just hope more game developers start using it. They need to aggressively pursue developers to use it.

 

[FuryXGuy]

No you didnt just point out mantle was part of Vulkan
You made a claim if was offered to Nvidia who rejected it thats why people asked for a source

Nvidia irrc are working with Vulkan so that cant be used as Nvidia refusing it if mantles part of Vulkan

Facepalm. Mantle was given to Khronos group which has now turned into Vulkan. Not the other way around.

nVidia was offered Mantle (at least according to Richard Huddy).

 

[FuryXGuy]

Please provide us with a link where we can download Mantle then please, or even Vulkan if you are really going to insist that Mantle is vulkan in its entirety, with nothing added or taken away.

Oh you cannot because even Vulkan hasn't been released to the public yet.




Source

I never said that Vulkan has been released.

According to Richard Huddy (if I recall correctly) nVidia was asked to work with AMD on Mantle and they refused.