Give Police 24hr Notice of Sex.

Andi90:
'The orders are issued by Magistrates not the Police and are fully tested in Court.'
BBC news item:
'They are civil orders imposed by magistrates at the request of police.'
So how does the magistrate come to the conclusion that this order is justified seeing as any previous convictions are not revealed to him/her unless the defendant is found guilty by the court.

Never actually applied for one or been present in a court when an application for an order of this type has been made, but you're right, there may be no previous convictions. That said if there are previous convictions, in many civil applications previous convictions can be used as evidence of bad character, such as in ASBO cases, or DVPN's. - but don't quote me on that one I'm no expert on civil matters.

There may however be quite a bit of intelligence, from the Police, family members and Social services etc., that paints an overall picture. The application is a civil matter so it wouldn't be made at the Criminal trial (irrespective of the person being found guilty or not guilty).

All the Police can do is apply for the order, they cannot make the minds up of the Magistrates and I suspect they've probably got certain criteria that they need to be satisfied with before they grant the order.

I would also think that the persons Solicitors are also in Court arguing the case for not imposing the order. So it should be a balanced hearing.
 
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Meh, we dont know enough, i get the impression what we dont know about the story (other impending cases etc) might well be the reason.

Sadly the media has this wonderful habit of not telling all of the truth, which whilst not lying is close enough to spark these debates.
 
Andi90:
'The orders are issued by Magistrates not the Police and are fully tested in Court.'
BBC news item:
'They are civil orders imposed by magistrates at the request of police.'
So how does the magistrate come to the conclusion that this order is justified seeing as any previous convictions are not revealed to him/her unless the defendant is found guilty by the court.

No reason not to disclose previous convictions for a civil order. All intelligence and evidence would be presented to the court and they judge it to a civil standard of proof, which unlike criminal cases, is only on the balance of probabilities not beyond doubt.
 
The fact that the order was extended by 4 months by a magistrate really does indicate that there is much more to this story than reported.

On face value the headline and (lack of) article is sensationalist. Burnsy surely has a valid point.

(My left (and sometimes right) hand identify as female so just a heads up).
 
Or it could be just the girls themselves manipulating the lads and giving them the run around... Oh, wait. They are always the innocent victims, I forgot. (

I find it disturbing that you don't seem to realise children should not be held to the same standard as adults and which way the balance of power is.
 
There surely must be more to this than we are being told. If he was found not guilty, how could they possibly make this stick. He would surely be fighting it wouldn't he?

How?

He's already been tried and acquitted. He's presumed guilty anyway by pretty much everyone because he's a man and because he's being punished despite being acquitted. How can he fight that?
 
I find it disturbing that you don't seem to realise children should not be held to the same standard as adults and which way the balance of power is.

I was wondering when this guy would turn up.... Were you sleeping herpderp?

*awaits to be told to "check my privilege" and how I am a "rape apologist/sympathiser" :rolleyes:
 
Lets throw this into the pot then for those that don't think these orders are a good idea.

Group of 18 -20 year old men (well tbh it doesn't matter what age they are) who buy groups of 14-15 year old girls drink, nice clothes, jewellery and take them for rides in their car and to some parties.

They don't touch them sexually - well not yet anyway. They keep going out with these girls, who think they're brilliant. The girls parents are at their wits ends, but the girls keep running away to be with these lads.

We all know where this is going to end up - its called Sexual Grooming.

How would you as stop this from happening? (without all the usual keyboard warrior crap that keeps getting spooled out on these forums?)

Stuck for an answer really aren't you? The lads haven't touched the girls. the girls keep going out with them. At the moment there aren't any 'real' offences. Imagine if it were your daughter?

Then one of them does get sexually assaulted. What would your reaction be towards the Police if they hadn't done anything to protect the girls?

This is one of the real reasons these orders are put in place.

Probably 6-10 years ago you are right. Very little or nothing much at all was done regarding these kind of incidents.

Child protection is now massively on the agenda within schools/social work.

Every member of staff teachers and non teachers are giving child protection training, what to look out for, what questions to ask and who to report it to etc. That includes everything from noticing a change in attitude/mood in a pupil or perhaps seeing them being picked up by older men or coming into school with new jewellery/phones that they might be bragging about.

Reminders are giving every year and everyone has to attend and sign that they have completed the training day. It's brought up multiple times throughout a school year including year group assembly's and then in smaller class sizes within the PSE Curriculum.

Schools have much better ties with the Police now, with regular visits to pupil support staff to identify pupils that might be at risk. The system isn't perfect if they continue to run away but it's a damn sight harder to just get lost within that system.
 
Probably 6-10 years ago you are right. Very little or nothing much at all was done regarding these kind of incidents.

Child protection is now massively on the agenda within schools/social work.

Every member of staff teachers and non teachers are giving child protection training, what to look out for, what questions to ask and who to report it to etc. That includes everything from noticing a change in attitude/mood in a pupil or perhaps seeing them being picked up by older men or coming into school with new jewellery/phones that they might be bragging about.

Reminders are giving every year and everyone has to attend and sign that they have completed the training day. It's brought up multiple times throughout a school year including year group assembly's and then in smaller class sizes within the PSE Curriculum.

Schools have much better ties with the Police now, with regular visits to pupil support staff to identify pupils that might be at risk. The system isn't perfect if they continue to run away but it's a damn sight harder to just get lost within that system.

Totally agree ColdasIce - safeguarding of all age ranges and vulnerabilities as you say is massively on the agenda, better to prevent rather than sort out things after offences are committed. My own Force is going even further, we're now ringing the Schools first thing in the morning to advise them that their pupils have been stuck in the middle of domestic incidents that we've been called to, so that they can keep an eye on the children/support them - clearly issues at home can cause behavioural effects in School. It's nice to hear that things have improved from other agencies perspectives.
 
Pupil medical/guidance book released every term, lists if a pupil has allergies, medical conditions, behavioural problems or some details if the pupil has been through trauma etc

Harrowing stuff some of it. Pupil with a fear of dogs, the dark and small spaces because his step-dad would lock him in a small dark room with the dogs if he "misbehaved"

Tip of the iceberg too :( So many kids completely broken even before they make it to secondary school and have to try and fit into main stream school.
 
So lets go through the logic of this wonderful civil order, what happens if a lot (n>10^3 {logical enough rear-ended number}) of men are put on this restriction, how many man-hours does the police have to waste detailing (10^3>=N>=N-1) woman?

I bet in a few a years we'll hear about a failed contraction of work from the government to make an auto-database-for-filthy-men costing a few hundred million or so and no one will bat an eye.
 
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