Give Police 24hr Notice of Sex.

[andi]

So one last message asking why this has happened doesn't appear to be a big issue of done in a reasonable way. A court of law wouldn't take much notice of the warning if in the subsequent investigation (which doesn't appear to have occurred* at the issuing of the warning) it was proved that they weren't harassing anyone.

Of course, being served a notice doesn't effect the burden of proof for a prosecution. The offence of harassment is that you pursue a course of conduct that you know, or aught to know amounts to harassment. As different people feel harassed by different things, a PIN serves to inform the alleged offender that their behaviour could be considered harassing and gives them the opportunity to stop. Should they continue, they cannot use the defence that they did not know it was harassing, because they were served a notice telling them so.

That being said, if you've been told someone is being alarmed or distressed by your contact, and then you contact them, well you're going to struggle.

Can you not see that there are ripe for abuse, especially if the person "warned" (or threatened if it wasn't the police) is not even allowed to provide their side of the story before issuance?

No. There's no need to provide their side of the story. It's a piece of paper saying this person doesn't want you to do this anymore. Anyone in their right mind just stops (or if they've not done it, continues to not do it) and moves on.

What, so you're saying that the police can take the word of some lying splitarse as gospel and just serve an harassment warning to some innocent bloke that she's decided to have a grudge against? Doesn't the bloke have a say in this matter?

Pretty much. And no, they don't. Pretty sexist to assume it'd be a woman being harassed by a man though

They have to be authorised by an inspector, who'll want to know the details, and it'd be a pointless waste of time to do one if there's no evidence of wrongdoing, so they're not quite as easy to give out as you're suggesting.

Should the person receiving the notice refuse to sign, the officer just documents that, and should they need to, gives evidence to the court that the notice was served.

A PIN is effectively words of advice made more formal do it can be used as evidence more easily.

 

[chaparral]

2 weeks later 2 cops turned up yesterday evening with a printed copy of a Prevention of Harrassment form which they wanted me to sign.

Yeah i did but not after I sent her another message telling he she needs help - and I meant it too. Sad story for everyone involved.

And you still went and sent this girl another message.......

 

[StriderX]

Of course, being served a notice doesn't effect the burden of proof for a prosecution. The offence of harassment is that you pursue a course of conduct that you know, or aught to know amounts to harassment. As different people feel harassed by different things, a PIN serves to inform the alleged offender that their behaviour could be considered harassing and gives them the opportunity to stop. Should they continue, they cannot use the defence that they did not know it was harassing, because they were served a notice telling them so.

That being said, if you've been told someone is being alarmed or distressed by your contact, and then you contact them, well you're going to struggle.



No. There's no need to provide their side of the story. It's a piece of paper saying this person doesn't want you to do this anymore. Anyone in their right mind just stops (or if they've not done it, continues to not do it) and moves on.



Pretty much. And no, they don't. Pretty sexist to assume it'd be a woman being harassed by a man though

They have to be authorised by an inspector, who'll want to know the details, and it'd be a pointless waste of time to do one if there's no evidence of wrongdoing, so they're not quite as easy to give out as you're suggesting.

Should the person receiving the notice refuse to sign, the officer just documents that, and should they need to, gives evidence to the court that the notice was served.

A PIN is effectively words of advice made more formal do it can be used as evidence more easily.

And the "victim" cant just send the message themselves?

Got to waste police time instead.

 

[Burnsy2023]

And the "victim" cant just send the message themselves?

Got to waste police time instead.

The PIN needs to state a few specific things for evidential purposes and being delivered by the police also removes the defence of "I didn't receive it".

 

[andi]

And the "victim" cant just send the message themselves?

Got to waste police time instead.

Lots of things that the police have to get involved in could be sorted by reasonable adults. Unfortunately there are many people who don't know how to be reasonable adults though.

Ideally the victim will have already tried that before involving the police. A PIN is evidential though.

 

[FoxEye]

I wanted to find out what the most petty example of "harassment" might be, and found this:

http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2014/11/10/is-saying-hello-sexual-harassment/

Some women think men saying "hello" or "good morning" is sexual harassment.

I wonder if our Police would serve a harassment order on a man who refused to stop saying "good morning" when asked?

 

[Burnsy2023]

I wanted to find out what the most petty example of "harassment" might be, and found this:

http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2014/11/10/is-saying-hello-sexual-harassment/

Some women think men saying "hello" or "good morning" is sexual harassment.

I wonder if our Police would serve a harassment order on a man who refused to stop saying "good morning" when asked?

Harassment is rarely about what is said, it's more about the frequency and pervasiveness of the contact. Someone "just saying hello" could easily be harassment.

 

[ron3003]

Harassment is rarely about what is said, it's more about the frequency and pervasiveness of the contact. Someone "just saying hello" could easily be harassment.

Well Adele and Lionel Richie better watch their step in future

 

[FoxEye]

Harassment is rarely about what is said, it's more about the frequency and pervasiveness of the contact. Someone "just saying hello" could easily be harassment.

I fear that generations who lived through the industrial revolution, or the wars, would look at us today and say, "What a bunch of jessies."

 

[Burnsy2023]

I fear that generations who lived through the industrial revolution, or the wars, would look at us today and say, "What a bunch of jessies."

Or they might say " isn't it nice that people are respectful to one another? ".

 

[StriderX]

Or they might say " isn't it nice that people are respectful to one another? ".

Some people want more respect than they deserve however and want policies that suit their worldly views.

 

[TheVoice]

To play devils advocate here. Who says the story he said isn't true.

I'd say the part where he contacted her yet again after being instructed not to undermines his whole "I did nothing wrong" defence.

 

[FoxEye]

Or they might say " isn't it nice that people are respectful to one another? ".

We're more respectful? You realise that's actually the opposite of what's really happened? In our parent's day people were 100x politer, there was a better sense of community, and people had by far more respect.

The main difference is the rise of Authoritarian Political Correctness, and the use of lawyers and police to resolve all our differences. Isn't the vast majority of police work these days attending domestic disputes? You can see why that would be necessary now we're all much more respectful. Lols.

 

[oli collett]

In our parent's day people were 100x politer, there was a better sense of community, and people had by far more respect.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest you're a white male?

 

[FoxEye]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest you're a white male?

Go on... but isn't it a bit early to be playing the race card, here?

 

[oli collett]

Go on... but isn't it a bit early to be playing the race card, here?

Well, it seems odd that on one hand you're complaining about a lack of respect, and on the other complaining of political correctness. Are you telling me ethnic minorities/people who are LGBTQ are treated with less respect and less politely in the age of political correctness?

 

[Amp34]

Of course, being served a notice doesn't effect the burden of proof for a prosecution. The offence of harassment is that you pursue a course of conduct that you know, or aught to know amounts to harassment. As different people feel harassed by different things, a PIN serves to inform the alleged offender that their behaviour could be considered harassing and gives them the opportunity to stop. Should they continue, they cannot use the defence that they did not know it was harassing, because they were served a notice telling them so.

That being said, if you've been told someone is being alarmed or distressed by your contact, and then you contact them, well you're going to struggle.



No. There's no need to provide their side of the story. It's a piece of paper saying this person doesn't want you to do this anymore. Anyone in their right mind just stops (or if they've not done it, continues to not do it) and moves on.

So basically its no difference to a documented visit by the police to have a word with the person in question? That said it's still a massive thing to hold over someones head, especially if they have no idea why it was served AND if the accused can't even provide their side of the story to see if it was served correctly. I think a reasonable understanding of WHY you have done something wrong in this sort of situation is the least they can be given.

My point is there are two sides to every story, I very much doubt many people would just shrug that sort of thing off, whether it was legitimate or not.

 

[Amp34]

I'd say the part where he contacted her yet again after being instructed not to undermines his whole "I did nothing wrong" defence.

That wasn't the point I was making. If the victim essentially made up a story to get one served then it seems fairly legitimate for someone to ask "WTF", and in a court of law I doubt it would swing a case.

Lets put it this way, if the case was tenuous at best, and the accused sent one last message asking (reasonably) what was going on, then I certainly wouldn't hold it against them as a member of the jury.

If on the other hand it was threats and accusations then thats a different story. And there in lies the problem with both warnings and non judicial orders, lack of investigation and only one side of the story. And the problem with people jumping on someone for stating their side of the story on the internet.

 

[Richie]

I wanted to find out what the most petty example of "harassment" might be, and found this:

http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2014/11/10/is-saying-hello-sexual-harassment/

Some women think men saying "hello" or "good morning" is sexual harassment.

Unless, of course, its a good looking man. Then its seen as a compliment

 

[V F]

We're more respectful? You realise that's actually the opposite of what's really happened? In our parent's day people were 100x politer, there was a better sense of community, and people had by far more respect.

The main difference is the rise of Authoritarian Political Correctness, and the use of lawyers and police to resolve all our differences. Isn't the vast majority of police work these days attending domestic disputes? You can see why that would be necessary now we're all much more respectful. Lols.

I'm actually really surprised we haven't reached the stage looking at a woman for 20 - 40 yards as she eventually walks past you or even a smile towards said person isn't classed as harassment yet.