Are degrees necessary these days?
- Thread starter asdfguy
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Degrees: damned if you do, damned if you don't.
That is, unless you went to a 'top' uni, did only one of a handful of STEM subjects and not have anything go wrong that prevents you from getting a 2.1.
2.2? Non RG uni (or god forbid an ex-polytechnic) or degree in a social science? May as well kill yourself now. How dare anyone who's not had an easy/perfect life expect a job over those that have.
Same old posters spouting the same old crap.
Subject choice is simply personal choice though, if someone has a good story/reason why they didn't get a 2:1 or a first then it doesn't have to be a negative either. Ex poly's can be fine for some subjects too - especially some technical subjects... I mean you might well pick up some certificates along the way and or still have immediately applicable skills even if you drop out.
On the other hand I guess if you make a choice to study say sociology or similar at a low ranked place and get a 2:2 then you may struggle when directly competing with other grads for any directly relevant roles or post grad places. You've also not got any directly applicable skills to offer an employer. So in some circumstances an A-Level school leaver who chose to not go to university might be in a better position than someone who did go but now has a poor result to explain on a CV. Tis hardly the end of the world though, there are plenty of ways people can break into different careers.
Your link substantiates what I said:
yep, good luck getting that interview, especially when HR has thrown out your resume.
Google definitely has technical people without a degree but they typically don't go through the conventional hiring process, instead based on networking, demonstrating a product, mergers and winning completions that Google sometimes setup. Early in Google's existence they had a load of aptitude tests online which if you completed your resume was checked over but I think they stopped that.
There can be, we've had one guy get a seven figure bonus in the past for landing a very big deal. Though people in those positions tend to have built up years of experience in other areas, have whole pre-sales teams reporting to them and working on the pitch... they'll be flying product managers around the world to give demos and the whole sales process could take a year or so. They can end up spending six figures in this process just pursuing a lead/making a pitch to some big organisation.
A 21 year old in that kind of environment wouldn't have a chance at making that sort of money there as he/she would just be a junior member of the team - though they will do well, 50k+ for a recent grad etc...
Your friend presumably was quite lucky in landing a very large deal (or they've got their commission structure wrong) and presumably the product is rather standard and sold like a commodity rather than requiring a salesperson with a big team reporting to him and the authority to spend large amounts of company funds pursing leads he/she feels are worth pursuing.
erm not really - you stated it was required, I'm pointing out it isn't
no one claimed it was easy, the link backs up what I posted in the first place
It often isn't just sales ability, being a good people person is very important though... but you're often also going to be running the whole process, be in charge of a significant budget, have pre-sales people reporting to you. You'll need to have built up relationships with product managers, be able to get time from them or their teams when you need it, know what you can promise clients and what you can't.
Simply being a good sales type is just one factor... well unless what your selling is just sold like a commodity.
SIR RICHARD BRANSON - High School Dropout.
MICHAEL DELL - Uni Dropout.
RALPH LAUREN - College Dropout.
DOV CHARNEY - Uni Dropout.
Amadeo Peter Giannini, multimillionaire founder of Bank of America. - High School Dropout.
The list goes on...
MICHAEL DELL - Uni Dropout.
RALPH LAUREN - College Dropout.
DOV CHARNEY - Uni Dropout.
Amadeo Peter Giannini, multimillionaire founder of Bank of America. - High School Dropout.
The list goes on...
I always point out that these are the outliers. You certainly don't need a degree to be successful but statistically the average graduate earns more than the average non-grad. We all love to think we are above average though...
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There is no such thing as luck in the real world. Luck is just a human notion applied to the physical world.
IF you graduate just after the recession then sure there were less opportunities but it didn't require luck to succeed, it required harder work. Get better grades, work harder on your own work portfolio, work hard on adding personal skills outside your degree. m Work harder at networking be more forceful in contacting employers and getting your foot in the door.
When I went to uni every Thursday night was an employer sponsored pizza and beer evening. Surprisingly few people bothered turning up, I was there most weeks even for companies I didn't car about in the slightest, and even once I decided on a PhD I still turned up to network. I even started going on my 3rd year instead of my final year, no rules against it, as did some friends. One time I turned up in my 3rd year and I found out there was actually a special dinner for the top 10 students in the 4th year (based on 3rd year grades I hadn't yet done, so wasn't invited), a few minutes after chatting to someone I was invited to the dinner. By the end of the evening I was fast tracked to a final round interview in London if I was interested. Furthermore, some friends doing a different degree were pressing me to go out for drinks with them instead of turn up to a job event I wasn't interested in, but I put my career first instead of beer consumption.
Couple of week later I did a a similar thing and turn up to an event I wasn't really invited for, got very interested in the company because they had 1 year paid internships in California and were selecting the best student from the best Unis in the UK. Some friends had done this internship the year before and put in contact with the right people to make it happen.
None of that is luck, its taking control of your life.
It is university dependent but (to go back to the original point of the discussion) if you've got a classification like a first or third then you have honours, as that's the description.
A BSc with First Class Honours or a MEng with Second Class Honours (Lower) for example.
If you haven't graduated with honours, whatever criteria your particular uni makes for that, then all you have is a degree pass and these days that probably is truly bordering on useless unless you have an extremely good story why.
Yep
http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2011/aug/24/earnings-by-qualification-degree-level
I am above the median average per hour and have a degree.
I think a lot of it depends on how your degree shapes your chosen career. For example, for the first 4 years of my professional career, I didn't touch my degree. Now I use it almost everyday. I wouldn't want to do something like a degree in Psychology and then work in the local council for instance.
Depends on the job. My job required my Masters for the application, but also requires many of the skills learnt from the Masters. I'm sure these could be picked up through experience in time, but the same is true for nearly ever job.
I've discussed the nature of chance and self-determination on here before. I have no desire to go over it again.
Self-determination will only get you so far. You are still fundamentally reliant on favourable events. Good and pragmatic actions simply help minimise barriers. Sometimes barriers are very difficult or next to impossible to surpass without good fortune.
To take your own analogy: it was self-determination that put you in that position but it was favourable chance that the invite and opportunity was there. You could have very easily have been turning up to those events when the opportunity wasn't present, or people to network with had decided to go elsewhere. It's confirmation bias and an illusion of control.
By your logic, you're assuming that anything bad that happens to people must be of their own making too.
Would it have been your fault if you'd had a health problem which prevented you from achieving or going to those meetings?
Would it have been your fault if you were born in a dysfunctional family unit or attended a poor school and your only option was to attend a lesser tier university?
Associate
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Whether or not you need a degree for a job role is very much dependent on the job itself. Some employers have to filter candidates out by the level of the academic qualifications they hold just because a (relevant) degree really is indispensable for the job. Other companies ask for a degree regardless of whether or not the job role actually requires it just because the pool of applicants is large enough for them to narrow down their search criteria that way.
Apart from highly specialised (and usually scientific/ technical) roles though, it's unlikely, in my opinion, that having a degree would make you any more effective at your job than a non-degree qualified colleague after a number of years' experience.
Apart from highly specialised (and usually scientific/ technical) roles though, it's unlikely, in my opinion, that having a degree would make you any more effective at your job than a non-degree qualified colleague after a number of years' experience.
you can increase your chances though - you still have control over subject choices, initial career choices... you don't *have* to build up skills at university there are entry level roles
for example you've mentioned being a project manager on here before, but that probably isn't likely for you ... on the other hand maybe a 1st line support role and building up some skills could provide you with a better chance at such a role in a few years
certainly luck does play a part but your own personal choices can considerably increase or decrease your chances of success too
Soldato
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Degrees: damned if you do, damned if you don't.
That is, unless you went to a 'top' uni, did only one of a handful of STEM subjects and not have anything go wrong that prevents you from getting a 2.1.
2.2? Non RG uni (or god forbid an ex-polytechnic) or degree in a social science? May as well kill yourself now. How dare anyone who's not had an easy/perfect life expect a job over those that have.
Same old posters spouting the same old crap.
Is this guy for real? Yeah if you get a 2:2 jump off the nearest bridge quick!
No personal attacks/insults.
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Which is what I've been repeatedly explaining time and time again.
To assume that self-determination is all it takes though is a fallacy.
For every dales person who thinks they are good on 200k there will be 500 others who also think they are good on well under 100k