Vet bill problem [updated 25/02]

Gilly

Gilly

Gilly

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My dog had some issues last year and the bill for her checking over and sorting out came to several hundred pounds. As it was a night-time call out I had to pay cash on the evening and left her there. After several checks and so on they couldn't find anything wrong with her so discharged her and when I went to pick her up the lady on reception confirmed they had all the relevant details for my insurer from a previous claim and would deal with the insurer direct.

I paid £245.70 in total but, as my excess was £99, expected to recoup the majority of that and that I wouldn't have to pay anything against the total outstanding balance (an additional £449.90) which is how I would've had to play it had the vets not dealt direct with the insurer.

Some months later they contacted me and asked me why I had not paid the outstanding balance having refused (?!) payment at the time. I was incredulous at this, called them, explained, was told I'd be called back by the one person that can deal with such queries but never was. This happened 4 times between September (first call - verified by it tallying with the date I contacted my insurer to ask if there had been any problem and them confirming there had been no contact at all) and December. Each time I was told I would be contacted by the right person in their offices having confirmed my details, but I was never called back.

Fast forward to today, where I receive a letter from a debt collection agency wanting the additional £449.90 and additional collection costs of £57.09.

What do you think of my email to the vets, with the collection agency copied in?

Good afternoon,

As you know there is a disputed sum of money outstanding on my account for Lola. Already paid to <vetinary practice name> by myself is a sum of £245.70 as shown on the Client Account Statement dated 15/04/2015 which exceeds the excess owing for any claim. I have, on numerous occasions, explained this position. I have also contacted the insurer myself, who stated that whilst they were perfectly willing to deal directly with yourselves that, they hadn’t had any contact whatsoever from you regarding this claim.

The position we are in is that you as a business and I as an individual are owed money, you agreed to deal direct with the insurers in recouping this money, and the difference between the excess payment and the amount I have already paid should be passed back to me from yourselves. I had it confirmed, in person at reception the last time I was on your premises, that the claim would be dealt with direct or I would be contacted to let me know as to why it couldn’t be.

I do not believe that this position has changed. I have checked today, once again, with <animal insurer name> who have confirmed that the excess on the account is £99. I have paid the above sum to you and am therefore £146.70 out of pocket. Can you please explain why you have still not contacted <animal insurer name> as agreed, and have now instructed a debt collection agency to collect a further sum of £449.90 plus fees, when you have not acted in accordance with our agreement?

I have today spoken to <individual's name> at the collection agency, who has agreed to put a 30 day stop on the collection. I would now prefer it if you could contact the collection agency, instruct them to cease the collection and contact <animal insurer name> directly to proceed the claim as was agreed.

Thanks and regards
Gilly
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[edit]I'll also capture the name of the person I spoke to each time, and the date that I contacted them and was promised a call back.

[edit2]Dammit, best laid plans and all that. I wrote the detail on the calendar so we'd have a record. Calendar has been binned because it's 2016 now :o
 
I think that pretty much hits the nail on the head, we have had problems with vets in the past especially with trying to over charge us etc. I hope you get it sorted.
 
Wait 5 working days for a response then get a solicitor.

If they're not contacting the insurer that is their fault. If they are not listening to you in the fact that it is how they are going to get that bill settled you have no option to cover your butt.

If it goes to a high court and they come knocking your door will have to settle and deal with it later.

Shut the gate now before the horse bolts.
 
Tom0 said:
Wait 5 working days for a response then get a solicitor.

If they're not contacting the insurer that is their fault. If they are not listening to you in the fact that it is how they are going to get that bill settled you have no option to cover your butt.

If it goes to a high court and they come knocking your door will have to settle and deal with it later.

Shut the gate now before the horse bolts.
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no need for a solicitor and it doesn't go to a high court.

The only way for it to go to a High Court Enforcement Officer is for them to sue, and win, in a County Court and then request the judgment is passed up to the high court for enforcement.

That is months away and highly doubtful to ever get that far.

The letter you wrote looks good, it points out all the facts in a strong but polite manner. Send it off and then contact the collection agents to make sure they have received it as well and have logged the dispute on the account.

Make sure you keep records of calls and letters/emails etc to all the parties just in case you need them later.

Can you sort it out by going to the insurer direct and getting them to pay out?
 
noj said:
...

That is months away and highly doubtful to ever get that far.

...
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Of course it is but they clearly aren't listening to Gilly. As has been said he has explained it all several times to them and they still sent out a collection.

The collection service has agreed to hold off but they're paid to complete either way. If the vets aren't going to listen in the next 30 days on how they ARE trying to be paid and how to collect, what else is there to do but to cover yourself in the meanwhile?

When the collection call again, I would rather pursue protection myself in the meanwhile than letting them come at me and turn it over. The email is good but if they ignore it like everything else, it's going to come back again. Perhaps when it does, a response from a solicitor might pick up deaf ears.
 
I though pet insurance worked by you paying the bill then claiming it back?
 
I've always done the claim forms myself for the vets. Then pay an admin fee (£6 out of my pocket) for the vet to fill out the 3 lines they need to fill in and sign it. Last time they sent it where as I would rather of sent it myself recorded. Then they refund the money directly into our account.

Obviously my main concern is you settle the remaining out of your pocket but it'll be too late to claim that back from the insurance company, depending on your policy but then a decent company will understand its not really your fault the vets didn't do as instructed.

Love to see a copy of the claim form sent to the insurance company from the vets. Mainly the amounts they've asked for. They could have said you've only paid £99 excess....
 
Surely the vet here are completely in the wrong.

You don't owe the vet anything - the insurance company owe it to them.

In fact, due to breaching their agreement with you, the vet actually owe YOU £146.70

Therefore, I think you should recommission the DCA to collect from the vet on your behalf!
 
RCVS is a good call actually. I may well drop them a note tomorrow, whether the vets contact me or not.

So, some updates.

They responded almost immediately with proof that I had contacted them explaining the circumstances I explained in the email I sent today (quoted above). Below are screenshots of what they emailed me in an Adobe PDF.

My contact to them having failed to get the right department on the phone on several occasions:

My_Contact_To_Them.jpg


Their contact intended for me, sent to the wrong mail address even though they should have been able to simply respond to the email I sent them in the first place, proving it was I that initiated this further contact:

Their_Contact_To_Me.jpg


So, as I read it, all their attachment proves is that I've tried multiple methods of getting hold of the right department, and they've been so incompetent that they couldn't even click 'Reply' to my email.

That said, in their email they stick to their guns:

Good Afternoon <Gilly>,

In response to your email below. Please find attached an email sent to you from our client care manager on the 19th of October 2015 advising you that the balance was due for payment following no approval of a direct claim.

This response was also sent by mail to you by myself with a covering letter on the 17th of December 2015 requesting payment.

As I received no response a further letter was sent on the 14th of January 2016 advising if payment was not received your file would be passed to a collection agent.

We have had no further correspondence from you until now. The debt is payable to us as per <Client Care Manager> email on the 19th of October. Once this is paid you will then be able to submit a claim from payable to yourself to claim back the fees directly from your insurance company.

I hope this clarifies the correspondence on the account I look forward to your payment by return.
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Nicola,

I’m afraid that this does not clarify any correspondence. You have attached further comment from me dated 16th October where I outlined the situation as I have again today, but didn’t communicate with me to discuss the situation I outlined in said contact. You have also provided me with information I could never have received, having sent it to the incorrect address. My smtp address is <my email address> but you have mis-spelled the address. You can verify this by comparing the contact from me via email with the attempted contact to me both contained in the same attachment which I have re-attached to this email for your benefit.

Your attempted, but failed, contact in the attachment states that you have repeatedly tried to contact me. Today is the first time I have ever received an email to this address, and I haven’t had any phone call from you to my phone since speaking to you regarding Lola’s condition back in April.

There are several factors across multiple parties here:

• I, <Gilly>, have brought my pet to you in good faith, I have paid monies there and then to cover initial costs which also cover well over the excess stated on my insurance policy, I have confirmed an insurance policy is in place and have confirmed that the insurers will accept contact from you direct.
• You, <vetinary practice>, have provided care to my pet, have mistakenly recorded that I ever refused payment (having already paid well over the excess why would you require further payment at this time anyway?), have, seemingly regularly, failed to contact me via phone or email address having used the incorrect address, have failed to contact the insurers at all, have failed to respond to my multiple attempts to contact you despite various messages being left, and have now passed my details to a third party in order to recoup funds that you should have already recouped from the insurers as per our agreement at the time and you continue to fail to explain why it is you won’t speak to the insurers, who I have repeatedly stated are happy to deal with you. NB, to this date the only letters I have received I have responded to, the last being dated 3rd September 2015. You can confirm the timing of these, as the insurers have record of my contacting them to confirm that everything is in place for you to proceed with the claim and, once again, confirming that they are willing to deal with you. Having had no response from you despite my efforts I then used your web form and emailed you in October to follow up as I had heard nothing back from you.
• The insurer, <insurer>, have confirmed that they are willing to deal direct but need details of the case, of which you are the only party able to give a full account.

Given the above position, why is it you feel that this situation is best handled by my paying even more money to you without you acting in any way as you agreed to?

I simply cannot fathom why it is you are continuing to avoid saying whether you will or won’t contact the insurer. Everything has been ready to proceed since April of last year and you have all of the facts and policy details. What more is it that you have ever needed in order to proceed?

Regards
Gilly
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Gilly

Apologies for the email error. Please can you confirm if, <Gilly's address> is the correct address as this is where I have sent my correspondence to.

The direct claim was declined at the time. I do not work within the Claims department and would not want to give you any incorrect feedback on this so if I can ask you to bear with me until tomorrow
I will get the details clarified and come back to you.
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<name of individual responding to queries directed at the insurance mail address>,

<Gilly's address> is indeed the correct address, and I received the correspondence on the 3rd of September from yourselves at this address as well as the correspondence from <debt collection agency> as described below.

I’m not sure what you mean by ‘the direct claim was declined’ as the insurance company have twice now confirmed that they have not received any contact from you at all regarding this claim. Please do ensure you come back to me, as it was yourself I spoke to on the phone last when I left a message for <Client Care Manager> to call me back, but this return call was never received. Please understand that I do not mean to attribute fault to you as an individual in this statement, only that I am feeling intense frustration at the position I have been put in by your company.

Regards
Gilly
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I think it's worth stressing that you've not had the promised calls back and they haven't made appropriate efforts to resolve the issue before passing the debt on to a collection agency, despite your repeated attempts to resolve it with them. Make it more about them not getting in contact with you rather than them not getting in contact with your insurers.

Also, can I get a bit twitchy about your misuse of reflexive pronouns. Your 'myself's and 'yourself's should really be 'me' and 'you' apart from the statement "I have also contacted the insurer myself,". [/Grammar Nazi]
 
WillyNelson said:
Also, can I get a bit twitchy about your misuse of reflexive pronouns. Your 'myself's and 'yourself's should really be 'me' and 'you' apart from the statement "I have also contacted the insurer myself,". [/Grammar Nazi]
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You can indeed. I wrote it through a red mist :D

That was the sort of thing I was after as well when I first posted this, but TBH when the individual at the other end of the email can't even use question marks I do wonder whether there is any point :p
 
I'd have been in quicker with my grammar jackboots on but only just saw your thread. :D Whenever I see a load of 'myself's and 'yourself's I can't help but hear it in the voice of Jade Goody ranting in the Big Brother house...!

From their 'bear with until tomorrow' email it sounds like there's been some sort of cockup with the original claim which, through incompetence or disorganisation, hasn't ever been put right.
 
oliviarosetp said:
i would definitely think about getting a solicitor if i was you, seems like theyre messing you around and not listening!
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Personally, I wouldn't. The sums aren't worth it. If you, for whatever reason, go down small claims (either bringing or defending), legal fees are not generally recoverable.

Arguable that given the many issues they might be, but not something to bank on.
 
Indeed. This can all be resolved by the vets going "We're sorry Mr Gilly, we made a mistake" and then making the insurance claim as originally agreed.
 
WillyNelson said:
From their 'bear with until tomorrow' email it sounds like there's been some sort of cockup with the original claim which, through incompetence or disorganisation, hasn't ever been put right.
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I agree. Though I do think she's just wet herself over cocking up, I can't help but wonder whether she's waiting for backup tomorrow or waiting for someone to kick her ass.

We'll see I guess.

WillyNelson said:
Indeed. This can all be resolved by the vets going "We're sorry Mr Gilly, we made a mistake" and then making the insurance claim as originally agreed.
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I simply cannot fathom why this hasn't happened already. They have all of the detail that they need. Why be so stubborn over it?
 
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