Good Gear Changing - Clutch Wear

Rainmaker said:
This should give you some ideas. For context, the poster is a retired police driving examiner and instructor with a police class one driving certificate. He's a top bloke and having been out with him before I can attest to his skill and knowledge.
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That's a pretty nice link with good info :).
 
Clarkey said:
You should be a comedian with jokes like that. Clearly don't know how gears work and shouldn't be listened to.

I watched that video too, that guy is much the same, is it you? My favourite part is where he blatantly coasts along then says it isn't coasting. Claims the disadvantage of coasting is that you are not in control and that the accelerator does nothing.
Wait a god damn second, how effective is the accelerator when you're bogging the engine right down to idle speed all the time?

I'm sorry, but that whole thing is total and utter nonsense. You should keep the engine in a reasonable operating range at all times, that means downshifting while you're going faster than a crawl, that means rev matching. Really not difficult at all.
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OK so now you prove you know nothing.

If you are in the right gear, idle 1krpm does not bog an engine. 1k rpm 5th gear, no power, 1krpm in 2nd gear, pulls fine, the reason gears exists!

Seeya
 
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Kenai said:
I have my suspicions that he's talking about a rate of braking and speed of shifting that, when combined with the very small differences involved around the 1000rpm mark, mean that there is no discernable rise in revs, as the the new 'required' revs have dropped considerably, compared to a quick ish shift at a constant speed.
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Yup, at low rpm's the difference in engine speed when downshifting are minute and don't require touching the accelerator to rev match.

This is normal road driving I am talking about here, not spirited driving, which obviously requires more rev matching and puts more strain on the vehicle overall. My answer was about mechanical sympathy in normal road driving which was the question asked in particular reference to the clutch wear.
 
Dr Who said:
Yup, at low rpm's the difference in engine speed when downshifting are minute and don't require touching the accelerator to rev match.

This is normal road driving I am talking about here, not spirited driving, which obviously requires more rev matching and puts more strain on the vehicle overall. My answer was about mechanical sympathy in normal road driving which was the question asked in particular reference to the clutch wear.
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Just tried in the car today, 1200rpm in 5th gear is then 2200rpm in 2nd gear. Sure, it's not necessary to rev match for that but it'll still decrease wear on the clutch to do so. I wouldn't call an increase of 1000rpm minute.

My car gets no power in any gear except 1st below 1500rpm, really needs to be 2000+ to actually get any reaction to the accelerator.
 
Phantom Shadow said:
Just tried in the car today, 1200rpm in 5th gear is then 2200rpm in 2nd gear. Sure, it's not necessary to rev match for that but it'll still decrease wear on the clutch to do so. I wouldn't call an increase of 1000rpm minute.

My car gets no power in any gear except 1st below 1500rpm, really needs to be 2000+ to actually get any reaction to the accelerator.
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Sounds nasty to drive if you have no power below 1500rpm in second. (Tubo diseasal off boost?) I have never excluded rev-matching, just slipping the clutch to drop down a gear as a way of achieving this.

Usually I will slow down clutch up until the engine is almost juddering then clutch down, new gear, clutch up and roll on the gas, if I need some extra power drop down, rev match clutch up and go. If you don't need to rev match, and come straight up on the clutch with no slippage, there should be no wear.
 
Is coasting with the pedal down toward lights and junctions bad for the clutch? I've developed a nasty habit of this, admittedly.
 
I tend to stick it into neutral whenever I'm sat in gridlock/traffic lights etc.... Avoids the whole "my leg is falling off" nonsense and should reduce wear and tear? It takes what, about a second to put the car back into gear ready to move off again.

Any of the more experienced/knowledgeable drivers out there have any comments on this? Is it bad practice or is it fundamentally correct?
 
Putting it into neutral when stopped at lights or in stationary traffic is exactly what you're meant to do. As you say it's better for the clutch itself and better for your leg. Don't understand people who keep the clutch down or even only partially down when at lights etc.

I was always under the impression keeping the clutch held in for extended periods was bad for the release bearing - can anyone confirm this is the case or whether it's bad for something else (other than your leg) or just not really a problem at all? Regardless of whether it's bad for it or not though, it still makes no sense to do so for anything longer than a few seconds in my opinion.
 
Cookeh said:
I tend to stick it into neutral whenever I'm sat in gridlock/traffic lights etc.... Avoids the whole "my leg is falling off" nonsense and should reduce wear and tear? It takes what, about a second to put the car back into gear ready to move off again.

Any of the more experienced/knowledgeable drivers out there have any comments on this? Is it bad practice or is it fundamentally correct?
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It's the best thing to do. If you're in first gear, sat at the lights and someone shunts the back of your car, your foot can slip off the clutch and propel you forward into traffic.
 
Dr Who said:
Sounds nasty to drive if you have no power below 1500rpm in second. (Tubo diseasal off boost?)
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1.4l petrol that had 78bhp when new, which was around 9 years ago so probably closer to 70bhp now. It doesn't have any power at any revs anyway, it's just literally got no power below 1500rpm :p

Phemo said:
I was always under the impression keeping the clutch held in for extended periods was bad for the release bearing - can anyone confirm this is the case or whether it's bad for something else (other than your leg) or just not really a problem at all? Regardless of whether it's bad for it or not though, it still makes no sense to do so for anything longer than a few seconds in my opinion.
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Yeah I've always heard it accelerates wear on the clutch release bearing, whether it makes a meaningful differences or not I don't know.
 
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I think you're worrying about something that doesn't need worrying about. Clutches can last hundreds of thousands of miles, it takes a fair amount of harm one. Even if you did it's only 400 to get a new one
 
Bunka said:
It's the best thing to do. If you're in first gear, sat at the lights and someone shunts the back of your car, your foot can slip off the clutch and propel you forward into traffic.
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To add to this putting it in neutral with the clutch up also reduces wear on the throw out bearing to some extent.
 
Phantom Shadow said:
1.4l petrol that had 78bhp when new, which was around 9 years ago so probably closer to 70bhp now. It doesn't have any power at any revs anyway, it's just literally got no power below 1500rpm :p
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Fiesta MK6.5? ;)

acemastr said:
I think you're worrying about something that doesn't need worrying about. Clutches can last hundreds of thousands of miles, it takes a fair amount of harm one. Even if you did it's only 400 to get a new one
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Not everybody's rich ;)
 
Nothing to do with being rich, you'd be unlucky to fry a clutch under 80k miles, 400 every 80k isn't exactly pushing it
 
I try to rev match, and drive smoothly with as much mechanical sympathy as I can muster, but it does not always go to plan :D I've had a lot of cars over many-many years, and took some on with dodgy clutches, but I've never worn one out myself... I think you'd have to be a bloody butcher to wreck one.

So how about overlapping gear changing and braking?... anyone do this without driving like a 90 year old (approaching roundabouts/turnings at 5mph) :confused: .... I've tried but given-up. I guess having feet on the brake and clutch at the same time is not ideal, but the added concentration, and (for me) extra loss of speed, seems to cause more woes. I like the ideals of 'advanced driving' but seem to lack some of the skills :mad:
 
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