Two explosions at Brussels airport

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Johno please? said:
You speak as if terrorists never killed civilians before facebook and isis :confused:

Islamic fundamentalists have been killing us infidels and other muslims for decades.

I post this on all terrorist related threads, just for the ignorant.

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That's not a good video for your case. The very first thing that Christopher Hitchens does when attempting answer the questioner (after the ad hominems), is to change their question. The audience member asked about this as a reaction to Western interference (colonialism and imperialism, specifically). Hitchens then attacks him for saying "that Western Civilization is the problem". That is an extraordinarily different thing. Hitchens then goes on to attack the notion that Western Civilization is a problem.

One can argue rights and wrongs all day, but arguing that attacks like 9/11 are not at all a response to Western interference is absurd.

Many people like to reject the idea that such attacks are a response because they think it is explicitly placing the blame for the attacks on Western countries. It isn't - the perpetrators of the attacks remain those to blame. However, denying cause and effect, is absurd. And when you take someone's question stating that cause and effect is being side-lined and rephrase it into something else you'd prefer to answer, you're proving the point of that audience member for them.
 
Edit : ^ Well said h4rm0ny

bingham67 said:
Picture of the suspected bombers released both wearing black gloves in there left hand but no glove on there right hands I guess to cover the trigger. :(
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I wonder why you wouldn't wear both gloves anyway...It would look less odd and be less conspicuous
 
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malachi said:
You find that all religious books in some shape or form.
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But not all religious books hold the same status in their religions. For example, most Christians in Europe do not hold the Bible as literal truth and in fact many don't even read it regularly. Even in the USA, I think most don't regard it as without error. And to the point, some religions don't even have an authoritative holy book.

But a core belief of Islam, absolutely central, is that the Koran is the literal word of god to his secretary Mohammed. One cannot be a Muslim and reject this belief. It is inarguably central. You're not even supposed to translate it!

That changes the discussion when it contains explicit examples of homophobia, of mutilation of enemies, or having a religious duty to convert others to your faith or treat them differently... They cannot be dismissed the same way as a story from the Old Testament.

Now this is NOT an argument for prejudice against Muslims. Most muslims, like most of any people, just want to get on with their lives. But when people get into arguments over Islam, it's important not to allow oneself to accept helpful inaccuracies just because they appear to refute an opponents point of view. One can not be in favour of prejudice against someone for being muslim, and still greatly dislike their religion. As I do.
 
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Washout said:
Obviously a highly emotive subject and make no mistake a terrorist scumbag who targets civilians (or anyone really!) is a scumbag not matter their colour, religion or creed.
I think the original point though was we've lived with terrorism in the UK for years why be more worried now? To which it was pointed out ISIS aren't like anything we've dealt with before. They aren't the same. To think so is itself dangerous and over simplification.
The agenda of the IRA wasn't for mountains of dead (I daresay some of them wouldn't have minded), scant consolation as that would be for families of anyone who died or were hurt by them. Violence was their means of attaining their goals, for ISIS violence and death appears to be the goal.
Had the IRA wanted to they could have caused far more damage and death with the bombs on the mainland than were caused. As I said before this would be massively detrimental to their 'cause'. If no warnings were sent with those truck bombs in docklands or Manchester the number of dead would have been far worse. ISIS won't warn when they attack!

The Real IRA who detonated the Omagh bomb destroyed themselves that day. Literally the only good thing to come of it. Their support evaporated. The ira attacks on the mainland were mostly targeted assassinations or designed to cause as much disruption (and cost money) as possible.

To put it simply if I found out ISIS cells in this country had access to bombs of the size the ira had I'd probably not go outside that day.
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I completely agree that ISIS are a threat unlike the IRA (or indeed any other 'regular' terror group) in that such groups that we have dealt with in the past have a realistic, though often to the majority undesirable, end goal. Which is not to say that while ISIS' end goals are, to us, totally bonkers, they're perfectly rational in the mindset of the religious fundamentalist. And they are not violence for violence's sake, but nothing less than the total global victory of Islam.

What I, and (I think) others, took exception to was the assertion that the IRA, because they sometimes gave their victims a 'chance' were somehow less evil. That because they made a phone call beforehand, they didn't really mean for the bomb to go off. That because that friendly looking Gerry Adams (with his oh so reasonable BBC supplied voice over) popped up on TV every now and then and said the death and injuries were regrettable, that somehow made it all a little better.

As for the notion that the IRA mostly dealt in 'targeted' assassinations (sound so civilised, a bullet in the head here, a car bomb on the driveway there), well that's just people having rather short memories. Here's a refresher, though it does make for depressing reading.
 
malachi said:
You find that all religious books in some shape or form.
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Worthless argument. That just means they are all evil. Quran is the most evil of them all because it is considered to be literal word of god by its adherents, unchangeable, unreformable. Fortunately not all muslims take it literally (if they did, we would all be dead, them included), but still there are 50 plus million salafists wahhabists who do take it literally and who do cheer when nonbelievers are killed. And then who knows how many "moderate" muslims who also would like to see islamic caliphate rule the planet. Virus of the mind.
I am just glad I live in a country that is 80% atheist. I will do what I can to make sure it stays that way.
 
mjt said:
Irrelevant. Saying this happened because Brussels is 25% Muslim is quite frankly offensive.
All this intolerant, ignorant, xenophobia and Islamophobia is going to get so many more people injured and killed than IS could hope to manage
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of course it hasn't happened because Brussels has a 25% Muslim population, it has happened largely because ISIS has been encouraging it to happen

however having a 25% Muslim population does increase the chances of ISIS managing to persuade a small group to carry out an attack than say having a 5% Muslim population
 
Isis which means 'murdering cowards' hate anyone who does not believe what they believe plus they want to rule the world! Nowhere is safe from them. They could be anywhere.

Do we know what this typical scumbag looks like? Without being racist, we do! Everyone will be looking at your stereotypical muslim as a terrorist because of these murdering scumbags!

They are making a bad name for those that are true muslims!
 
dowie said:
who do you think is a 'true muslim' and why are others not 'true muslims'?
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Don't think anyone really has the ability to say who is and isn't X religion.



Although I certainly don't suspect every white ginger person as a terrorist :D.

Pretty sure there's no way to tell terrorists from normal people.
 
dowie said:
who do you think is a 'true muslim' and why are others not 'true muslims'?
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Any true muslim would be God fearing and not want to cause terror and mayhem unlike the isis scum who are twisting their religion to suit their needs!
 
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