xonar stx vs creative zxr

db2431 · 30 Mar 2016 at 07:12

Got the xonar through in the post, currently unopened, had planned to pair it with some hd600s, speakers would run through my avr.Now I'm having some buyers remorse and wondering if I should have bought the creative zxr.Common consensus seems to be the creative sbx codec in games massacres Dolby headphone, and from listening to the youtube comparisons I can't disagree.Every game comparison the zxr was FAR superior.

They both have the same internals practically, I think the zxr has a slightly new version of the same line of dac.By all accounts the higher output impedance makes very little difference in sound, both practically identical with music.

I'm a big movie watcher, and listening to Star Wars for example on the Dolby headphone on my old xonar dgx was amazing, so I'm wondering how the zxr handles 5.1 encoded movies with the sbx or 5.1 on?Cant seem to find anyone talking about this and it's really what is going to make me decide which card.Does it hold up to watching a 5.1 encoded movie on Dolby headphone?inferior, very much the same or superior?

rids57 · 30 Mar 2016 at 18:47

Degradation of the sound quality due to the high output impedance (38 ohms) will depend greatly on what headphones are used with it. The 300 ohm Sennheiser HD 600s are borderline while Philips X2 (32 ohm) would suffer (boomy bass) at the low end of the frequency spectrum and AKG K7xx would suffer (splashy cymbals and sibilance) at the high end.

Why Creative chose to give them such a high output impedance is beyond me, when Asus managed to make the STX with mostly the same components with an impedance of 10 ohms.

Marsman · 30 Mar 2016 at 19:43

Not experienced SBX, but I have CMSS 3D, which was used on the X-Fi cards. CMSS 3D was not very good for surround when watching films, in my opinion; very good for gaming though. Dolby Headphone I found was far better when it came to films, but not quite as good as CMSS 3D when playing games.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's a similar story with SBX, but then so much comes down to personal preference. For gaming, some preferred DH, some CMSS 3D. I've just read someone's comment in Madlustenvy's thread on Head-Fi, and he prefers DH to SBX for gaming; I'm sure some prefer SBX. Until you've tried all that's on offer, it's impossible to say which you will find best.

As for the sound card itself, like rids57, I've no clue why Creative used such a high output impedance. That really makes it not a good choice for many headphones; and why no gain setting? Asus included a gain setting on their cards with headphone amps, even the cheap DG/DGX. :confused:

I'm thinking that's the second time Creative have done something that makes no sense, after making so it so headphones and speakers could not be swapped in the X-Fi Titanium HD software. One or the other had to be removed so the other could work. :/

db2431 · 30 Mar 2016 at 20:58

Marsman said:
Not experienced SBX, but I have CMSS 3D, which was used on the X-Fi cards. CMSS 3D was not very good for surround when watching films, in my opinion; very good for gaming though. Dolby Headphone I found was far better when it came to films, but not quite as good as CMSS 3D when playing games.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's a similar story with SBX, but then so much comes down to personal preference. For gaming, some preferred DH, some CMSS 3D. I've just read someone's comment in Madlustenvy's thread on Head-Fi, and he prefers DH to SBX for gaming; I'm sure some prefer SBX. Until you've tried all that's on offer, it's impossible to say which you will find best.

As for the sound card itself, like rids57, I've no clue why Creative used such a high output impedance. That really makes it not a good choice for many headphones; and why no gain setting? Asus included a gain setting on their cards with headphone amps, even the cheap DG/DGX.

I'm thinking that's the second time Creative have done something that makes no sense, after making so it so headphones and speakers could not be swapped in the X-Fi Titanium HD software. One or the other had to be removed so the other could work. :/

Zxr has gain setting the z and zx don't. the box is staring at me to open!Still reading up on both to make a decision.my main problem with Dolby headphone is the reverb, which seems not so apparent in movies and sounds awesome,In gaming it's too high.Ive only tried it on the dgx, I've heard reverb is better on stx with the unified drivers?

Marsman · 31 Mar 2016 at 11:26

Ah, so it does have a gain setting, although still not sure why they didn't put that on the Z. Sorry, still think that's rather lame of Creative. If Asus can do that with a £25 card, no reason why Creative can't with a £50+ one.

Anyway, moving on; I think the echo or reverb, is probably the main reason why some people are put off Dolby Headphone. I've found that it wasn't a problem for me on DH2 setting. I've used a DG and an ST, but it's certainly still there on the ST. Not really sure how the Unified drivers can make much difference to be honest, because if I am understanding what you mean when you say 'reverb', that's down to Dolby Headphone, which is the same on all cards that have it. Only reason why it might be slightly better or less, according to some with the STX, is because of the better sound quality. Maybe that helps to lessen it somewhat, but I do think if anyone doesn't like DH, then that will apply to DGX as well as STX.

I think it's probably worth trying the ZxR, and see how you get on with it and your headphones. You've experience DH, even if not with the STX, so you know you don't get on with that well when it comes to gaming; or you could try the STX first and return it under the 7-14 day DSR (whatever it is) if DH is no different from that of the DGX.

db2431 · 31 Mar 2016 at 14:34

Couldnt resist the temptation so installed the stx.Sounds AMAZING on the hd600, never heard such an amazing headphone.Dolby sounds good on movies, still too much reverb for games.I actually liked dolby for games until I heard the sbx tests on yt, now I cant shake the reverb.

rids57 · 31 Mar 2016 at 17:57

You could always try selecting DH-1 instead of the default DH-2 that it uses for gaming and movies.
It should cut some of the reverb down as it uses a more intimate setting.
I find DH-3, that it defaults to for the music setting, totally obnoxious, so it's just as well that I don't have any 5.1 music.

db2431 · 31 Mar 2016 at 19:56

rids57 said:
You could always try selecting DH-1 instead of the default DH-2 that it uses for gaming and movies.
It should cut some of the reverb down as it uses a more intimate setting.
I find DH-3, that it defaults to for the music setting, totally obnoxious, so it's just as well that I don't have any 5.1 music.

Yeah dolby 1 is ok, I mean it does what its supposed to and simulates being in a room with a 7.1 setup.Ive seen an app you can use with the asus unified drivers that apparently can lower the reverb, ill have to track it down.I might get a creative card down the road but finding it harder to justify the extra 50 notes on it, wouldnt use the mic/volume control or daughterboard.

Ryanr1987 · 31 Mar 2016 at 20:37

I get what you mean about the reverb in Dolby. I don't competitive game as much as I used to so I may just grab a Soundblaster X7 and enjoy that clean presentation. Dolby Headphone also is geared towards warmth so that doesn't help.

db2431 · 31 Mar 2016 at 21:52

Ryanr1987 said:
I get what you mean about the reverb in Dolby. I don't competitive game as much as I used to so I may just grab a Soundblaster X7 and enjoy that clean presentation. Dolby Headphone also is geared towards warmth so that doesn't help.

I might try the hacked sbx drivers on my realtek onboard, its an alc889 which i think is compatible, has anyone tried these?the x7 is around 300 isnt it?

Ryanr1987 · 31 Mar 2016 at 22:45

Yeah I've been thinking about getting it for ages. The idea of surround sound for my consoles and a DAC/Amp for my laptop and headphones just seems ideal!

I nearly bought a pair of HD800's the other day for gaming but might grab the X7 for now and sale the Mojo.

TwsT · 31 Mar 2016 at 23:09

the x7 is a solid choice i'm not sure if it beats a mojo but it certainly offers features no other dac does.

rids57 · 1 Apr 2016 at 00:38

It's what I would have if I could afford it, I was very impressed with it in my short time with it.

Ryanr1987 · 1 Apr 2016 at 00:39

As long as it's on par with at least a Schiit stack I'd be happy! Going to order it tomorrow! Not sure whether to grab the limited edition version or not.

rids57 · 1 Apr 2016 at 02:43

Doesn't the limited edition just have a stronger amp for passive speakers? Oh and it's white.

db2431 · 4 Apr 2016 at 20:58

Ended up ordering the creative zxr, spent an hour with both in my rig a-Bing them with Winamp (the stx)back and forth, if there is a difference it's so subtle, possibly the creative is a touch bassier, but I'm not even sure of that.but the difference in games and movies is immense, gone is that feeling you are in a fishbowl or bathroom from Dolby headphone, and everything sounds spacious and wide with sbx.Needless to say the stx is in its box and ready to be shipped back!headphones used for testing were hd600.

Marsman · 4 Apr 2016 at 21:50

Can't say I'm surprised that the SBX is better for gaming, but somewhat surprised it's better than DH for films. SBX must be one heck of a step up from CMSS 3D when watching films, as the latter was complete poop in my opinion.

£150 for the ZxR is not too bad a price at all really, not when you look at what it used to cost and what the STX II currently is. At one point the ZxR was £200 which was silly expensive; now you get the card, module and the 5.1 add on board, for less money than just the STX II alone. For 5/7.1 support with the STX II, you have to pay £205. As good as the STX II is, it's overpriced really. The card itself is £50 more than the STX was, and that extra £50 doesn't in my opinion get you enough extra to justify that increase in price.

£185 for a sound card is bordering on the silly side in my opinion. You can probably buy a Schiit DAC and amp for that, then connect the DAC to a cheaper sound card for the headphone surround sound effect, etc.

db2431 · 4 Apr 2016 at 23:02

Marsman said:
Can't say I'm surprised that the SBX is better for gaming, but somewhat surprised it's better than DH for films. SBX must be one heck of a step up from CMSS 3D when watching films, as the latter was complete poop in my opinion.

£150 for the ZxR is not too bad a price at all really, not when you look at what it used to cost and what the STX II currently is. At one point the ZxR was £200 which was silly expensive; now you get the card, module and the 5.1 add on board, for less money than just the STX II alone. For 5/7.1 support with the STX II, you have to pay £205. As good as the STX II is, it's overpriced really. The card itself is £50 more than the STX was, and that extra £50 doesn't in my opinion get you enough extra to justify that increase in price.

£185 for a sound card is bordering on the silly side in my opinion. You can probably buy a Schiit DAC and amp for that, then connect the DAC to a cheaper sound card for the headphone surround sound effect, etc.

Dolby headphone rivals sbx during action scenes, maybe even better in places, but the second it slows down and a characters footsteps echo or the conversation in a open field sounds like they are in a glass box, it all goes out the window, it was a huge immersion breaker for me,Basically the lower the sbx slider the more it sounds like cmss, the best positional cues but no treble or bass, the further up you slide it the more it sounds like Dolby headphone WITHOUT the reverb, you lose some of the positional cues nearer you get to 100%, but all the fullness of the bass and treble come back.Sbx is basically Dolby headphone without the reverb and cmss mixed together.

db2431 · 5 Apr 2016 at 01:05

Just tried ac syndicate as I tried them on the Dolby headphone and rather than sounding like a wide open busy street, it sounded like I was in a small recording studio with 50 other people.Now with sbx I feel like I'm in living breathing 19th century London, sounds are wide and spacious, when someone tries to attack me I know exactly which direction just from the sound!