AMD "Greenland" Vega10 Silicon Features 4096 Stream Processors?

[Ian Evey]

Its ironic that now its amd using less vram on a card and amd users are defending it, when not more than 4 years ago the same argument was being defended by nvidia users.

How times change, if only amd's top 2 tier cards had more vram than its 3rd and 4th tier cards then that would make perfect sense as its not like 4gb of hbm is the equivalent of 8gb gddr is it!

 

[Overlag]

Its ironic that now its amd using less vram on a card and amd users are defending it, when not more than 4 years ago the same argument was being defended by nvidia users.

How times change, if only amd's top 2 tier cards had more vram than its 3rd and 4th tier cards then that would make perfect sense as its not like 4gb of hbm is the equivalent of 8gb gddr is it!

again, the only reason those 390s have 8gb of Vram is because they needed to keep the 512bit bus, and the chips these days have double the capacity of the ones on the 290s. Not to mention it "looks good" having more Vram than a every card on the market other than a Titan X... which i guess some will fall for.

 

[Ian Evey]

again, the only reason those 390s have 8gb of Vram is because they needed to keep the 512bit bus, and the chips these days have double the capacity of the ones on the 290s. Not to mention it "looks good" having more Vram than a every card on the market other than a Titan X... which i guess some will fall for.

Some People certainly fell for the 8gb 290 ooops i mean the rehashed 8gb 390 and rightly so, It had double the Vram of their top cards.

 

[bru]

There is no denying that numbers looks good and bigger numbers sell.

As for 4GB for 4K, well everything I have tried on my 4K TV and 970, with a bit of settings fiddling I have managed to get running at an acceptable 'to me' level. But that is the crunch of the matter, everyone is different, what one finds acceptable another might not, one might prefer a better looking game, whereas another might prefer a faster running game.

A couple of points that have really made this thread into what it is over the last few pages. Needing more then 4GB for 4k, well you don't need it, but there are a small handful of games that if you want to run max settings you do (this number is only likely to increase going forward) and of course that is the other point that has shaped this thread. some of these settings make such slight differences to games that most people cannot even see the difference, I haven't been able to see the difference when looking at different screen shots, but of course whether a difference is perceptible to most or not, maximum settings is not a debatable thing, would 8Pack be eligible to get a world tittle if he ran one of those benches with a setting or two turned down because he cannot see a visible difference? Of course not, max settings is everything up to the max.

The whole thing will be moot in the not too distant future, as HBM2 becomes a available and both sides will for the first time in quite a while I think be using the same memory bus size and amount for their top end cards.

 

[LoadsaMoney]

If you can get more than 4GB with HBM1, then its not a fail, the only fail will be AMD limiting it to 4GB on their Furys.

 

[Kaapstad]

Seriously, taking it to the next level of trolling. Firstly I didn't suggest anywhere what settings people should use. I stated as a matter of fact that there are literally 3 games that 'need' more than 4GB at 4k and then explained that one was merely broken and has since been fixed and the other two offer quite literally no IQ improvement at all.

If you want to as an end user reduce your performance by using a setting that doesn't improve IQ you are entitled to do so no matter how completely stupid I believe that is.


I say you don't need more than 4GB in the majority of games but you CAN use more if you truly want to in a select number of titles, this is in no way remotely readable as me telling people what settings to use. On the other hand you fight and argue in almost every thread insisting you absolutely need 4GB for 4K gaming regardless even though the only way that is true(for a small number of games) is if they used the settings you apparently use, IE buy loads of cards and have horrible frame rate with 8xaa. One person on these forums is telling everyone what they must have and what settings they must use, you.

You are giving your opinion on what these settings do, not every user will see it that way. You should not dictate to other people what they need or don't need.

How people wish to use their hardware is entirely up to them.

 

[r7slayer]

Its ironic that now its amd using less vram on a card and amd users are defending it, when not more than 4 years ago the same argument was being defended by nvidia users.

How times change, if only amd's top 2 tier cards had more vram than its 3rd and 4th tier cards then that would make perfect sense as its not like 4gb of hbm is the equivalent of 8gb gddr is it!

Nope nVidia 980Ti user here and i do think a lot of the time people over exaggerate the memory requirements or get confused with memory used vs memory required.

When i had my 290x running GTA at 1080p i saw the usage at 3.4GB and rarley went over that only at. Max i saw was 3.7. Now using the same settings on my 980Ti it reaches 4.8 which amazed me. That tells me that's how much is in the memory buffer not how much the game requires at the time. It's just not flushing the memory buffer.
Now i could start claiming you need a card with 6GB atleast to play GTA5 at 1080p couldn't i? lol


Not just that Kaap does like to have max settings at 4k and some people will argue that max AA at 4k is pointless which tbh visually is. There are other settings which reduce IQ such as DOF for example which i always turn off in games. Still some people will turn them on because they either like it or believe it improves IQ or visual quality. That's debatable.

 

[Kaapstad]

Nope nVidia 980Ti user here and i do think a lot of the time people over exaggerate the memory requirements or get confused with memory used vs memory required.

When i had my 290x running GTA at 1080p i saw the usage at 3.4GB and rarley went over that only at. Max i saw was 3.7. Now using the same settings on my 980Ti it reaches 4.8 which amazed me. That tells me that's how much is in the memory buffer not how much the game requires at the time. It's just not flushing the memory buffer.
Now i could start claiming you need a card with 6GB atleast to play GTA5 at 1080p couldn't i? lol


Not just that Kaap does like to have max settings at 4k and some people will argue that max AA at 4k is pointless which tbh visually is. There are other settings which reduce IQ such as DOF for example which i always turn off in games. Still some people will turn them on because they either like it or believe it improves IQ or visual quality. That's debatable.

ROTTR is interesting with indicated memory usage when comparing a TitanX and Kingpin on the bench.

If you measure memory usage @2160p maxed on the TX it is about 10.5gb.

When comparing the above 2 cards using the bench thread settings the Kingpin wins by a small margin @1080p and 1440p but loses by a small margin @2160p.

Or putting it another way the actual memory needed is only just starting to effect the 980 Ti @2160p, even then you have to measure it in a benchmark as it is not visible to the eye.

Having said that a game like XCOM 2 is a different story where a 980 ti will really struggle running max settings @2160p.

 

[DazQ87]

What do we think the chances are that the high end fury-x replacement is going to use and AIO cooler like the fury-x. I know a lot of people may not be too keen on it but I actually quite fancy an AIO for my next card.
I'm hoping to move back to AMD for my next card, especially now that I have a freesync monitor.

 

[Overlag]

If you can get more than 4GB with HBM1, then its not a fail, the only fail will be AMD limiting it to 4GB on their Furys.

each 1024bit stack is limited to 1GB. So other than making a 8096bit memory controller with 8 stacks of ram its never going to happen on HBM1.

What do we think the chances are that the high end fury-x replacement is going to use and AIO cooler like the fury-x. I know a lot of people may not be too keen on it but I actually quite fancy an AIO for my next card.
I'm hoping to move back to AMD for my next card, especially now that I have a freesync monitor.

Efficiency should help it be air cooled with 14nm. I kind of hope they they don't do a AIO cooler because id be taking it off to put a proper waterblock on it and paying for an AIO i wont need is frustrating.

 

[drunkenmaster]

You are giving your opinion on what these settings do, not every user will see it that way. You should not dictate to other people what they need or don't need.

How people wish to use their hardware is entirely up to them.

Once again you are the one who post after post tells everyone what they need. I post in reply saying you don't NEED, because you don't NEED. Saying you don't need doesn't preclude users who want to use more and I've never discouraged anyone from doing so. YOu are dictating a requirement by telling everyone what they need, I am in no way doing the same by saying you don't need. It's literally the opposite. You've spent the last probably 6 months spamming every thread screaming at people that you simply must have, you absolutely need more than 4GB for 4k gaming.

You are dictating to everyone what they need, I'm providing factual evidence proving that you do not need but you MIGHT want more than 4GB.

 

[Kaapstad]

Once again you are the one who post after post tells everyone what they need. I post in reply saying you don't NEED, because you don't NEED. Saying you don't need doesn't preclude users who want to use more and I've never discouraged anyone from doing so. YOu are dictating a requirement by telling everyone what they need, I am in no way doing the same by saying you don't need. It's literally the opposite. You've spent the last probably 6 months spamming every thread screaming at people that you simply must have, you absolutely need more than 4GB for 4k gaming.

You are dictating to everyone what they need, I'm providing factual evidence proving that you do not need but you MIGHT want more than 4GB.

Try reading the post of mine you have just quoted.

I would also recommend you stop making things up in your posts as some of the things you are saying about me are totally untrue.

Also ranting and raving about people will just make you look silly and biased.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

FFS,can both of you agree to disagree and leave it at that.

 

[Mauller]

Kaap is too stuck in his ways, Thinking memory usage is equivalent to memory required for the same IQ.

 

[Kaapstad]

ROTTR is interesting with indicated memory usage when comparing a TitanX and Kingpin on the bench.

If you measure memory usage @2160p maxed on the TX it is about 10.5gb.

When comparing the above 2 cards using the bench thread settings the Kingpin wins by a small margin @1080p and 1440p but loses by a small margin @2160p.

Or putting it another way the actual memory needed is only just starting to effect the 980 Ti @2160p, even then you have to measure it in a benchmark as it is not visible to the eye.

Having said that a game like XCOM 2 is a different story where a 980 ti will really struggle running max settings @2160p.

Kaap is too stuck in his ways, Thinking memory usage is equivalent to memory required for the same IQ.

You were saying ?

If only people would read what I post rather than assume.

 

[drunkenmaster]

Try reading the post of mine you have just quoted.

I would also recommend you stop making things up in your posts as some of the things you are saying about me are totally untrue.

Also ranting and raving about people will just make you look silly and biased.

Are you denying you've made hundreds(easily) of posts telling forum members they need more than 4GB for 4K. Would you deny that you've made lots of posts where when called on it you eventually say something about 4k + 8xaa requires it in such and such a game, and argue against others who would disabled IQ reducing settings. As such your statement of needing more than 4GB is completely based on requiring every user to match your settings. Except in most of your posts you don't say that, you just drop into dozens of threads and tell everyone you absolutely must have more than 4GB for 4K.

I on the other hand tell people you don't need more than 4GB... don't need doesn't preclude wanting to run more at all and I've never told a single person you can't find a way to use more than 4GB or it won't benefit you if you run such settings.

Need is exclusive, it directly says you can't run 4k with less than 4GB when you tell everyone you need more than 4GB. When you say don't need, it's inclusive, don't need more than 4GB doesn't mean can't use more than 4GB and I always give context about how you can go about using more than 4GB and tell the user what the IQ gain from doing so does. You post without context(initially).

The post you are asking me to read, is hypocritical, nothing more or less. You're accusing me of something dozens of people have accused you of over months except yours is the made up accusation. Everyone here has seen your hundreds of "you must have more than 4GB of memory" posts and they have also say you don't need more than 4GB of memory.


You are the one making up claims. Find me several posts where I suggest you can't use more than 4GB or how, or what the benefit/cost of doing so is. Do you honestly believe I couldn't quote dozens of posts where you are insisting you have to use more than 4GB based on your own specific settings?

 

[Kaapstad]

Are you denying you've made hundreds(easily) of posts telling forum members they need more than 4GB for 4K. Would you deny that you've made lots of posts where when called on it you eventually say something about 4k + 8xaa requires it in such and such a game, and argue against others who would disabled IQ reducing settings. As such your statement of needing more than 4GB is completely based on requiring every user to match your settings. Except in most of your posts you don't say that, you just drop into dozens of threads and tell everyone you absolutely must have more than 4GB for 4K.

I on the other hand tell people you don't need more than 4GB... don't need doesn't preclude wanting to run more at all and I've never told a single person you can't find a way to use more than 4GB or it won't benefit you if you run such settings.

Need is exclusive, it directly says you can't run 4k with less than 4GB when you tell everyone you need more than 4GB. When you say don't need, it's inclusive, don't need more than 4GB doesn't mean can't use more than 4GB and I always give context about how you can go about using more than 4GB and tell the user what the IQ gain from doing so does. You post without context(initially).

The post you are asking me to read, is hypocritical, nothing more or less. You're accusing me of something dozens of people have accused you of over months except yours is the made up accusation. Everyone here has seen your hundreds of "you must have more than 4GB of memory" posts and they have also say you don't need more than 4GB of memory.


You are the one making up claims. Find me several posts where I suggest you can't use more than 4GB or how, or what the benefit/cost of doing so is. Do you honestly believe I couldn't quote dozens of posts where you are insisting you have to use more than 4GB based on your own specific settings?

Have you been taking lessons from Bill Clinton in how to distort the English language ?

I have said a number of times that if you want to use max settings @2160p then 4gb is not enough. This leaves it up to the end user to decide.

I have also said a number of times in other threads that for single card usage 4gb is ok as you will most likely run out of GPU grunt before memory size is a problem. I guess you must have missed these posts.

I would also like to remind you that there are a number of very important AMD threads that I post in very regularly where I don't debate things like memory size. The reason being these threads are there to showcase the cards.

I happen to like AMD cards and will still have all mine long after you have sold what you are using. I don't appreciate you arguing silly points of order as this ultimately leads to threads turning very negative against AMD where people have to debate with you.

I think I have made my point and will leave it at that so I can enjoy my Fury Xs in peace.

Please try not to make yourself look silly by replying to this to try and score a point.

 

[GFX-Kid]

DM is right. I mainly a lurker, don't post much, but have seen many posts by Kaap trying to show how 4GB is not enough. So much so people are starting to believe 4GB is not even enough for 1080p. Lol.

Luckily not everyone buys it DM

It is funny to see some people not backing down and admitting they were wrong on that particular occasion. Instead carry on getting defensive, continue digging a hole for themselves and go on to lose credibility. Seen it happen quite a few times

 

[Overlag]

DM stop feeding him, or it will keep going around in circles.

 

[Mauller]

You were saying ?

If only people would read what I post rather than assume.

Not assuming anything. And as multiple people keep telling you, Max settings is not always equal to max IQ. Many of your examples use uncompressed textures at max settings which bloats the Vram memory requirements.

All modern GPU's can process compressed textures with no performance penalty, all while modern compressed textures have no discernable IQ difference to their uncompressed form. All it does is bloat the memory footprint with no IQ improvement. The same as using stupid levels of MSAA at 4k.

All of your arguments revolve around games that use uncompressed textures at max texture settings and lots of MSAA at 4k which are unneeded for the same IQ.

Hence why memory usage is not always equal to memory required for the same IQ. which you do not seem to understand one bit.