Problem with a dealer bought car (2016 updated for 2020)

Dave85 said:
Would be asking him to take it to BMW for a independent diagnosis and then if it's confirmed its the valve stem seals he should be covering the cost fully or refunding you. The law and consumer rights are on your side here so keep pushing. Maybe a good idea to lodge your issue with the local trading standards so its on file.
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Malt_Vinegar said:
I'm totally at a loss now.
CAB are telling me one thing and other people as above.

I'm also doubting the problem with the car now. It only seems to happen when it's cold outside and the car is cold. So I'm led to believe that these cars can pump out a lot of water vapor when cold due to the large exhaust and condensation.

Debating calling the whole thing off and dropping it. Maybe I am just paranoid.
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LiE said:
Maybe an idea to have it checked by a specialist to confirm? No use guessing.
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As Dave & Lie state. This is what I did with my BMW after leaving deposit. I insisted the car went to BMW for full diagnosis pending completion of sale. Dealer booked the car himself into Surrey BMW who inturn called me directly to verbally give give me the outcome of the report. Inturn I also collected the report from the dealership prior to completing the sale.

At 50K I would not expect the issues you describe.
 
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teenwolf said:
When I make my next car purchase from a dealer it's going on a credit card Without fail, I guess there is a small percentage extra to pay but well worth it.
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or you could just pay a little extra and buy an approved used? I would avoid independent dealers or private sales tbh
 
With that engine what you describe is more likely the PCV at the back of the crank cases. I'd be surprised at it going at such low mileage though.
It's a fairly quick job for a specialist and the parts are cheap.

Having owned a 750i E65 myself, I never noticed excessive smoke on mine so I'd say it's not normal and needs to be checked out.

PCV quite often manifests itself as a rough idle too.
 
Malt_Vinegar said:
I'm totally at a loss now.
CAB are telling me one thing and other people as above.

I'm also doubting the problem with the car now. It only seems to happen when it's cold outside and the car is cold. So I'm led to believe that these cars can pump out a lot of water vapor when cold due to the large exhaust and condensation.

Debating calling the whole thing off and dropping it. Maybe I am just paranoid.
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I would suggest that CAB are probably trying to give practical advice so that should it come to legal remedies you can demonstrate that you have behaved reasonably. However it is of course also possible that their guidance hasn't been fully updated to reflect the strengthening of consumer rights in this regard. One thing that hasn't changed however is that if the fault appears in the first six months and it's not down to wear and tear then it's presumed to have been present at point of sale unless the seller can prove otherwise so it is up to them to provide an appropriate remedy.

I think it's sensible to take their advice on board and do give the dealer the chance to inspect the car but for your own peace of mind it's probably worth getting an independent inspection as well. For the sake of £150 (or whatever) you'll have something which tells you whether your worries have any foundation and it might also helpfully point out whether there are any other areas of concern or if it's all "mint". The cost for the inspection is probably only 1% of the purchase price so I'd suggest worth the outlay to know that you've investigated it as thoroughly as you can. Additionally until you've had the inspection it's easy to jump to conclusions about worst case scenarios when it might be a relatively trivial thing to fix.
 
semi-pro waster said:
I would suggest that CAB are probably trying to give practical advice so that should it come to legal remedies you can demonstrate that you have behaved reasonably. However it is of course also possible that their guidance hasn't been fully updated to reflect the strengthening of consumer rights in this regard. One thing that hasn't changed however is that if the fault appears in the first six months and it's not down to wear and tear then it's presumed to have been present at point of sale unless the seller can prove otherwise so it is up to them to provide an appropriate remedy.

I think it's sensible to take their advice on board and do give the dealer the chance to inspect the car but for your own peace of mind it's probably worth getting an independent inspection as well. For the sake of £150 (or whatever) you'll have something which tells you whether your worries have any foundation and it might also helpfully point out whether there are any other areas of concern or if it's all "mint". The cost for the inspection is probably only 1% of the purchase price so I'd suggest worth the outlay to know that you've investigated it as thoroughly as you can. Additionally until you've had the inspection it's easy to jump to conclusions about worst case scenarios when it might be a relatively trivial thing to fix.
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Sound advice here, but does he really want to have to deal with a dealership that responds like this if something goes wrong again in the immediate future? I'd be exercising my 30 day right of return and buying one elsewhere.
 
-Mike- said:
Sound advice here, but does he really want to have to deal with a dealership that responds like this if something goes wrong again in the immediate future? I'd be exercising my 30 day right of return and buying one elsewhere.
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Indeed. If something else packs up he won't get a "bring it back to us sir and we'll take a look for you", he'll have to go through this entire rigmarole again. And it can be quite stressful.
 
-Mike- said:
Sound advice here, but does he really want to have to deal with a dealership that responds like this if something goes wrong again in the immediate future? I'd be exercising my 30 day right of return and buying one elsewhere.
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30 day right of return?
 
Bah! I was hoping to read about threats bordering on fisticuffs, followed by an apoplectic dealer having to refund the money with angry spittle running down his chin.
 
semi-pro waster said:
Let's hope it really has resolved itself then although it would still be interesting to know what caused the symptoms and how it was fixed.
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Am I missing something or did the OP simply mistake steam on a cold car on a cold day for smoke?

I once though my head gasket had blown (not uncommon on a Rover K Series which this was) due to huge amounts of steam and water coming from the exhaust... Took it to my mechanic who diagnosed.... a very cold, damp day :o :D
 
Redline might be on to something :D
It was epic plumes of water vapour in the end. I figured out I had run the test only early in the morning or when it was cold and the car has been sat.
I did it a few times in thre warmer weather and got nothing but a tiny puff of residual vapour on first blip and nothing afterwards.
BMW specialists diagnosed it without viewing it and told me it was sure to be the valve stem seals and not to consider keeping the car and just return it asap.
I called another indy for a second opinion and in hindsight he was more cagey and said it could be any things but valve stem seals was a possibility.
At that point though I was in a state of worry and the dealer being awol for 2 weeks just compounded my worries!
I discussed it with a couple of family members with experience of valve stem seals failure in BMWs and also owned a few big v8s. He said it was nothing like the problem he had and that his various v8 cars were like cooling towers on cold mornings!

I have apologised to the dealer and we have kissed an made up. I wilL be dropping a bottle of plonk over to him ASAP!
 
The dealer hasn't exactly covered himself in glory, no matter what the outcome. I'd certainly not be treating him to a bottle of wine!
 
It hasn't been said yet but... you know all cars have white smoke come out the exhaust when cold?

Even my 1600mile 4 week old truck smokes on start up in the morning and it's 70f here at that time.

Just checking to make sure it isn't condensation!

*Edit* beaten like a ginger stepchild.
 
As someone who likes to know what happened in threads like this:

4 years later, and on 89,000 miles, the car failed it's MOT with huge amounts of smoke being produced. It was doing about 700-800 miles per litre of OIL towards the end...

It has always produced excessive amounts of smoke after a period of idle and got progressively worse.

I hired a kit for £500 and then spent the best part of 40 hours over three weekends replacing the seals myself. It was quoted as many thousands of pounds by BMW and slightly fewer thousands of pounds by independent garages.

In the 40000 odd miles it has done with me, it has had service items, 2 new windscreens, an exhaust clamp bolt went missing and was replaced, a cracked alloy from a pothole, a cooling heater control valve failed, and obviously the big one, dodgy valve stem seals.

I should have stuck to my guns really and pushed the dealer harder, but I really do love the car and think I stuck my head in the sand and just figured I would deal with it later when it became a problem.

It has just been through its MOT without any advisories, and with next to perfect emissions. Hopefully it will give another few years of service before it throws up anything too scary :D
 
Good job. As you know, I need to do the valve stem seals on my 650i at some point so will be bugging you for advice.
 
Great to hear of old but lovely cars like this still going strong and actually turning out to be broadly reliable (After all, the valve stem seals are a known issue on this engine). Let us know how it is going in another 4 years! :)
 
Malt_Vinegar said:
As someone who likes to know what happened in threads like this:

4 years later, and on 89,000 miles, the car failed it's MOT with huge amounts of smoke being produced. It was doing about 700-800 miles per litre of OIL towards the end...

It has always produced excessive amounts of smoke after a period of idle and got progressively worse.

I hired a kit for £500 and then spent the best part of 40 hours over three weekends replacing the seals myself. It was quoted as many thousands of pounds by BMW and slightly fewer thousands of pounds by independent garages.

In the 40000 odd miles it has done with me, it has had service items, 2 new windscreens, an exhaust clamp bolt went missing and was replaced, a cracked alloy from a pothole, a cooling heater control valve failed, and obviously the big one, dodgy valve stem seals.

I should have stuck to my guns really and pushed the dealer harder, but I really do love the car and think I stuck my head in the sand and just figured I would deal with it later when it became a problem.

It has just been through its MOT without any advisories, and with next to perfect emissions. Hopefully it will give another few years of service before it throws up anything too scary :D
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Shows you none of these jobs are particularly difficult and none of the mechanics would do it using the kit to speed it up and save you money. Not only that but mechanics charge hourly and the job rate is always the same. If they do a set of disks and pads it’s £60 an hour if they do an engine rebuild and the liability that goes with it then it’s £60 an hour.

So essentially most don’t like to bother with anything conplex as it’s not worth it.
 
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