Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (April Poll)

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

  • Remain a member of the European Union

    Votes: 452 45.0%

  • Leave the European Union

    Votes: 553 55.0%
  • Total voters
    1,005
  • Poll closed .
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eldergeek said:
With Europe having gotten to the state it's in, I see it this way:

If my grandparents wanted the Germans dictating everything we do and say in the UK, the Windsors would still be Sax-Coburgs, and we'd have joined the party on the side of the Russians, the Germans and the Japanese - as it stands, we fought tyranny, oppression and a central government intent on depriving its citizens of basic human rights, which is basically what they're edging towards.
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Lol. Beware of the tyranny, oppression and assaults on human rights that are now done the.. EU.

Firstly, the main reason why WWI and WWII happened is.. Nationalism. That's what the Germans and the Japanese had, strong, independent, authoritarian goverments that put the interest of their nation above everything, including peace.

Secondly, ask yourself who the modern nationalists are and what they support. Farage, Le Pen, Orban, Putin they all have things in common. They 'love' their country, they shun international cooperation, they put their country first at any cost. If we let these people gain more power we will go back to where we started at the dawn of the 20th century. Only this time, we are capable of causing infinitely greater destruction.

You're position is on the wrong side, the same side against which your grandparents fought.
 
People who intend to vote to leave the EU are being equated to Nazi's? Really?
Farage is a modern day Hitler? Typical lefty attitude.

Would we want the far right to control the EU? No - Of course not. However in recent times, it is resembling a left-wing political organization that is un-democratically and unfairly dictating to member states who aren't following their left-wing agenda.
 
Zethor said:
You're position is on the wrong side, the same side against which your grandparents fought.
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My grandad fought in WW2, if he were still alive today I'm 100% sure he'd be voting to Leave the EU.

Quite astonishing that you'd equate voting to Leave the EU with nazism.
 
I very much doubt your granddad, whether he is alive today or not, would have a full grasp on the intricate details surrounding the EU and that he would carry his own set of bias' with him.

Astonished or not, it is very easy to compare the driving force for leaving with the NSDAP campaigns.
 
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Avenged7Fold said:
I very much doubt your granddad, whether he is alive today or not, would have a full grasp on the intricate details surrounding the EU and that he would carry his own set of bias' with him.

Astonished or not, it is very easy to compare the driving force for leaving with the NSDAP campaigns.
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Nice - insulting my dead Grandad. Good to see the smug "you're too stupid to understand the argument" line is being trotted out against the Leavers.
 
No insult there, it seems your granddad was around far before what we are facing today, so its not surprising he does not understand the details of the modern EU as many people of that generation dont and carry a bias due to living in an era that predates our current modern society.

You shouldn't take it the wrong way, its a pretty fair statement. I dont expect any of us would have a fair grasp on modern political events 50 years time as we will be held back by our own biases developed over the years. The world was a different place and thus a different way of thinking was needed. Hell, it has been said multiple times that this intricate subject is beyond the full comprehension of the average modern voter.

Also, no one equated voting to leave with being a nazi. Many insults being taken when none given here. All was said was that the driving force behind the leave campaign is very much rooted with the same nationalistic ideals as what gave the NSDAP support.
 
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scorza said:
Nice - insulting my dead Grandad. Good to see the smug "you're too stupid to understand the argument" line is being trotted out against the Leavers.
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You are acting like a spoilt child. Get over yourself, he didn't insult your dead grandad. If anything you're insulting him by putting words into his mouth on an internet forum.

He stated the simple truth, the EU is a big and complex beast, and it's highly unlikely that anyone has a full grasp on it. And that has nothing to do with leaving or remaining in the EU.
 
I'm not comparing the leaders I've mentioned with Hitler. I am comparing modern nationalism with 19th century nationalism. I'm doing so because nationalism is a problematic ideology that creates barriers between people, because it convinces the poor, the ignorant or the frustrated that their problems can be fixed by keeping a distance from those who are different.

History has proven otherwise time and again. We should be concentrating on our common goals and ideas, which is what the EU is about, not our differences, which is what Farage, Le Pen, Orban or Putin want.
 
EU's cultural marxism is not a common goal as people are sick of it's ideas such as political correctness. History has proven marxism always fails, so will the EU.
 
Ok, this is my only warning before the ban hammer comes out. Stop the petty bickering and insults. If you can't debate this in an adult manner then the thread will be locked.
 
Another boost for the OUT people, as the very recently agreed deal with Turkey to take back illegal migrants landing in Greece has already all but fallen apart. Apart from a handful of Pakistanis flown out, each with 2 minders, Greece has now stopped sending any more as processing them is taking too long to enable a continuing flow of even 200 a day, less than new illegal migrants land ashore. Our naval ships sent out to deter people smuggling from Turkey and Libya are doing just as I feared and helping these illegal migrants onto larger vessels and taking them safely ashore on overcrowded Greek islands. A good deterrent indeed... And then there's the fiasco of the EU court of justice stating that EU originating immigrants in other EU countries cannot be returned to their originating EU country if the prison facilities there are poor. They consider those of Romania and Hungary "poor", yet these countries have unfettered EU membership. Those that have no papers as they have thrown them away in order to say they are from wherever suits their nefarious purposes best? No doubt the EU Court of Justice will take a view they must not be touched and can remain come what may if found to be of a criminal bent. The insanity deepens.
 
Avenged7Fold said:
No insult there, it seems your granddad was around far before what we are facing today, so its not surprising he does not understand the details of the modern EU as many people of that generation dont and carry a bias due to living in an era that predates our current modern society.

You shouldn't take it the wrong way, its a pretty fair statement. I dont expect any of us would have a fair grasp on modern political events 50 years time as we will be held back by our own biases developed over the years. The world was a different place and thus a different way of thinking was needed. Hell, it has been said multiple times that this intricate subject is beyond the full comprehension of the average modern voter.

Also, no one equated voting to leave with being a nazi. Many insults being taken when none given here. All was said was that the driving force behind the leave campaign is very much rooted with the same nationalistic ideals as what gave the NSDAP support.
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It's not Nationalistic, it's ideologically driven by our desire to govern ourselves. There's a distinct difference between being a Nationalist and believing in a right to a fair representative democracy, which doesn't include 450 million people from other countries voting on MEPs that then dictate our laws.
 
They are voting on things that dictate the laws of all members and our representation is proportional to our contribution both politically and economically.

That is democracy.

Leaving because you don't get to have enough impact to decide for all other states but for the good of UK, is not.
 
platypus said:
He stated the simple truth, the EU is a big and complex beast, and it's highly unlikely that anyone has a full grasp on it. And that has nothing to do with leaving or remaining in the EU.
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That's the problem - it's too big and too complex, no-one understands it. Hence why my charge that it lacks transparency is an accurate one.
 
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