Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (April Poll)

[Mulder]

That's a little more hard to answer of course, the only thing I can suggest you do is look through the record of the EU Parliaments version of the Hansard and see how British MEPs have voted for a direct look at how our MPs have influenced voting. Of course, thats a pretty dull task .

Not enough time in the day for that

I just don't buy the "we'll lose our influence argument". The Norway, Swiss, Icelandic option is not perfect but as below, their people don't seem to mind:

It’s been many years since any opinion poll showed a pro-EU majority in an EFTA nation. Iceland has formally withdrawn its application, and the Swiss pro-EU campaign has admitted defeat and closed down. As for Norway, the latest survey there showed 17.8 per cent in favour of joining, 70.5 per cent against.

 

[platypus]

Precisely! We have some level of control over our own Government and can vote them out every 5 years (or march in Westminster) if we don't like where they're taking us.

Whereas if we stay in the EU we may not get to vote on that for another 45 years......

My inference was if the Government decided to keep us in the EU and you didn't like it, you could hold them to account for it at the next GE .

 

[Tunney]

Received this through the post yesterday:

Still waiting for my leaflet from the government.

 

[platypus]

I just don't buy the "we'll lose our influence argument". The Norway, Swiss, Icelandic option is not perfect but as below, their people don't seem to mind:

I think that the implication is once outside the EU, we'll be renegotiating trade deals (with 28 countries all having a veto may I just point out) and there is every incentive for the EU to try and make sure we don't get as good a deal, because if we do it spells trouble for it.

 

[scorza]

Well the argument put forward by some people for leaving is that we can hold the government accountable every 5 years if they make a decision we don't like..

Not just every 5 years, there are other mechanisms for holding the government to account that are in place and well understood. Hell, we even have the concept of an Opposition whose job it is to hold the government to account. Then we have the select committees as well. Conversely no-one seems to understand how the EU works; Cameron comes back from Brussels and says he has a legally binding deal, lots of other people agree with him, lots of other people disagree with him.

 

[Danthus]

I think that the implication is once outside the EU, we'll be renegotiating trade deals (with 28 countries all having a veto may I just point out) and there is every incentive for the EU to try and make sure we don't get as good a deal, because if we do it spells trouble for it.

All of those countries will stall want our goods, there will be no issue reaching a deal.

 

[platypus]

All of those countries will stall want our goods, there will be no issue reaching a deal.

Eugh. <headinsand>no of course there wont, everything will go exactly as we want and in our favour.</headinsand>

 

[Danthus]

Eugh. <headinsand>no of course there wont, everything will go exactly as we want and in our favour.</headinsand>

I said a deal will be reached, I never said everything would be the same or in our favour.

 

[platypus]

You said

there will be no issue reaching a deal.

This certainly implies that everything will go easily, well and in our favour.

Or, what did you mean by "no issue"?

 

[Danthus]

No it doesn't, I said a deal will be reached and it will, I made to assertions as to what the deal would be.

 

[John40]

Received this through the post yesterday:

Still waiting for my leaflet from the government.

You may be in one of the areas where postmen are either binning them or leaving them at the sorting office, because they were all sent out last Saturday for this Monday.

 

[platypus]

No it doesn't, I said a deal will be reached and it will, I made to assertions as to what the deal would be.

Ok, why did you say that there will be no issues then? What was the implication behind that?

You'll have to forgive my obvious stupidity here, but on an internet forum it's very hard to work out implied meaning.

 

[Danthus]

Ok, why did you say that there will be no issues then? What was the implication behind that?

You'll have to forgive my obvious stupidity here, but on an internet forum it's very hard to work out implied meaning.

Because it will be in everyone interests to reach a deal.

 

[platypus]

Ok and you think there won't be any stumbling blocks or difficulties here.

 

[platypus]

Hence my slight confusion at his implication.

 

[Danthus]

Ok and you think there won't be any stumbling blocks or difficulties here.

More than likely but that doesn't mean a deal will not be reached.

 

[[TW]Fox]

All of those countries will stall want our goods, there will be no issue reaching a deal.

They want American goods too, they just slap tariffs on them.

The continued bizarre tendency people have to think what's being discussed here is 'Europe won't trade with us' is weird and shows a lack of understanding.

Of course Europe will trade with us, the issue is on what terms?

A tariff on imported Jaguars doesn't harm Germany, allows Germans to purchase our cars yet benefits domestic manufacturing.

Just like the tariff on virtually everything imported into the European Union from outside it.

 

[Danthus]

They want American goods too, they just slap tariffs on them.

The continued bizarre tendency people have to think what's being discussed here is 'Europe won't trade with us' is weird and shows a lack of understanding.

Of course Europe will trade with us, the issue is on what terms?

A tariff on imported Jaguars doesn't harm Germany, allows Germans to purchase our cars yet benefits domestic manufacturing.

Just like the tariff on virtually everything imported into the European Union from outside it.

Just like the tariff on virtually everything imported into the European Union from outside it.

To use some obvious examples, do you think the likes of VAG, BMW, Mercedes, Siemens, Alstom, EADS and going to take kindly to a tit for tat tariff war?

In or out, I honest think very little will change, people will find a way to carry on as close to what we have now.

The problem with this whole debate is that I can also argue for and against Europe using the same arguments as yourself and others.

Edited to include your full quote.

 

[Cosimo]

You may be in one of the areas where postmen are either binning them or leaving them at the sorting office, because they were all sent out last Saturday for this Monday.

Are they really doing that?

 

[Rilot]

I'm amazed at how close it is. A poll-of-polls I was looking at for the last month was showing it 50/50 (source: http://whatukthinks.org/eu/opinion-polls/poll-of-polls/).

If this is accurate then we will end up voting to leave. Older people are more likely to vote to leave and are also more likely to bother to vote (source: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/02/eu-referendum-young-voters-brexit-leave).