Poll: Doctors strike tomorrow, do you support it?

[EddScott]

Ah the good old "privatisation" bit at the end. Might as well sneak that in there as well while we're at it.

And where does the private company get it's doctors from?

Jnr doctors may well find they'll get paid more from the private sector. Probably cost them some pension at the other end.

There were two Jnr doctors on the BBC this morning. One was all for striking, the other appeared to have already accepted the new contract.

My question is how come one accepts and the other doesn't?

Neither side has shown itself in a good light. Hunt has his career on the line, the doctors see this as us against them - as if they're in still in a student union debate and not the real world.

Something needs to be done - if it is just a case of funding more doctors why doesn't the BMA or whomever state that they'll consider A contract IF new doctors are funded and then leave it there - see who blinks first.

Being ill at the weekend is dangerous and traumatic if you only have the NHS to rely on - I spent 12 months looking after my terminally ill wife and although the NHS was superb in almost every area, the weekends were particularly stressful if medication ran out or pain flared up. They actually became a dread.

 

[Danthus]

Who would you trust, a doctor or a politician?

 

[Squink]

Who would you trust, a doctor or a politician?

Over NHS finances? Not the doctor.

 

[Freakbro]

Depends which doctor and which politician

I'd trust Vince Cable over my ***** GP, but I'd trust Dr Crippen over BoJo

 

[tres]

Why would doctors have a problem with this anyway? They'll still have their jobs and probably the higher pay they crave.

Because whether you believe it or not, doctors as a profession care about the patients they treat. They see the inequality, they see those that suffer due to a thousand reasons that are beyond everyone control. But they also are able to treat them, free at the point of contact, like everyone else. We all know, if it because privatised, or at least headed that way, you'd get the tiered health system which was the opposite of what the NHS was founded on. Hell, I'd get paid a lot more if it all went privatised!

You may firmly believe something but with no real evidence why would you support something passing itself off as fact.

http://www.nhsforsale.info/privatisation-list/overview.html
Billions and billions

Both sides could do that.....

Doctor Patel is currently rota'd to work Monday to Friday from 12pm to 7pm. Currently if she hangs around for 2 extra hours after her shift she can earn 3 hours more pay. If she come in on a Sunday for just 4 hours she can get paid for up to 8.

But the government want to change the times her premium rates kick in, meaning she won't earn as much for working longer hours. Her options....

1) Accept this is 2016 and the idea of getting up to double time for working anything outside the classic mon-fri 9-5 is a relic of the past and sign the contract.

2) Sign the contract and just stop doing the extra hours, meaning she is less tired, patient safety is increased.

3) Stamp her feet, go on strike and pretend the issue is about working longer hours and privatizing the NHS

Dr Patel would never get paid for those extra hours - Dr Patel can hang around for as long as she wants, she'll get her timetabled hours, and that's it.

The issue is number 2 - doctors put in (in my witnessed experience) about 10 hours a week EACH for free. They don't get paid for these, but they're expected to. They need to to make sure patient care is continual and they get home asap. Without this free labour, there would be big issues. Patient safety would be reduced, not increased.

 

[FrenchTart]

Over NHS finances? Not the doctor.

The government do have a sterling reputation for managing finances.

 

[tres]

And where does the private company get it's doctors from?

Jnr doctors may well find they'll get paid more from the private sector. Probably cost them some pension at the other end.

There were two Jnr doctors on the BBC this morning. One was all for striking, the other appeared to have already accepted the new contract.

My question is how come one accepts and the other doesn't?

Was it the Irish doctor?

Who would you trust, a doctor or a politician?

I'd trust absolutely anyone rather than a politician. I have had first hand experience at the sheer corruption and spin that has been going on, and for the first time, it's amazed and scared me.

 

[estebanrey]

I support the doctors, and I am genuinely surprised that Jeremy Hunt is still in a job. His handling and negotiation of this contract has been awful.

Really, have you seen the current contract vs the proposed one and the BMA's "compromise"

Now how you can negotiate with people who have made it clear they are unwilling to budge further than a token gesture? Hunt proposed a system with drastic and fundamental changes to the premium rate working hours and the BMA have said "We'll let you skirt round the edges and knock and hour off and the start and end of the day but we want a 4-7% pay rise on top of that".

One look at that chart above shows you is less willing to compromise here.

 

[tres]

Really, have you seen the current contract vs the proposed one and the BMA's "compromise"

Now how you can negotiate with people who have made it clear they are unwilling to budge further than a token gesture? Hunt proposed a system with drastic and fundamental changes to the premium rate working hours and the BMA have said "We'll let you skirt round the edges and knock and hour off and the start and end of the day but we want a 4-7% pay rise on top of that".

One look at that chart above shows you is less willing to compromise here.

You do realise the government's offer equates to an enormous pay cut to the vast majority of doctors? It's not a gentle redistribution, it's getting a lot more work done for no extra expenditure. There would be equal conflict in any other profession being threatened with this.

 

[Danthus]

Lets ignore the financial aspects of the dispute for a minute.

Hunt says we need a 7 day NHS, we already have one, what he wants is 7 day elective care.

To provide this he is offering no more doctors, he just wants the existing pool of resource to cover a larger time period.

With that there is no provision for extra nurses, porters, cleaners, radiographers, phlebotomy/haematology.

How is that good for patients?

 

[Squink]

Because whether you believe it or not, doctors as a profession care about the patients they treat.

Today someone's Mam will die. Someone's only son will die. Perhaps they would have lived if a junior doctor was on the ward helping to treat them. Because today and tomorrow, those doctors won't actually be treating them. They can blame the government all they like but the striking doctors today are betraying everyone they claim to care for.

 

[daz]

Today someone's Mam will die. Someone's only son will die. Perhaps they would have lived if a junior doctor was on the ward helping to treat them. Because today and tomorrow, those doctors won't actually be treating them. They can blame the government all they like but the striking doctors today are betraying everyone they claim to care for.

You do realise that wards are not empty today? Consultants and nurses are covering emergencies. Many junior doctors that are striking are still wearing their bleepers in case they are required in the event of a serious trauma or emergency.

 

[Danthus]

Today someone's Mam will die. Someone's only son will die. Perhaps they would have lived if a junior doctor was on the ward helping to treat them. Because today and tomorrow, those doctors won't actually be treating them. They can blame the government all they like but the striking doctors today are betraying everyone they claim to care for.

You make it sound like there are no doctors working at all.

 

[tres]

Today someone's Mam will die. Someone's only son will die. Perhaps they would have lived if a junior doctor was on the ward helping to treat them. Because today and tomorrow, those doctors won't actually be treating them. They can blame the government all they like but the striking doctors today are betraying everyone they claim to care for.

Load of rubbish. Consultant led care throughout.

Someone's mum, son, dad, whoever WILL come to harm a lot more if this contract goes through.

The '10,000 elective operations cancelled' figure gets thrown a lot around at the moment. Emergency surgeries will go ahead, but it's the elective ones that are postponed. Oh no! People will come to harm because the doctors are striking!

Completely ignoring the fact that around 100,000 have been postponed so far this year because of budget cuts and staff shortages. Which is directly down to the government.

 

[Danthus]

And some of the striking doctors are running first aid courses for people.

 

[Squink]

You make it sound like there are no doctors working at all.

You make it sound like junior doctors aren't required

 

[tres]

You make it sound like junior doctors aren't required

 

[cheesyboy]

If you're in for emergency treatment, you're better off being there on a strike day - I know I'd rather be looked at by a consultant than a Jnr.

 

[Tunney]

Jeremy Hunt says that this will be his last big job in politics. I wonder which lucrative career he'll be taking up next?

 

[antijoke]

As a total new comer to this why does Hunt want a truly 7 day NHS?

Is what we have now simply not good enough?