Poll: Doctors strike tomorrow, do you support it?

[Danthus]

As a total new comer to this why does Hunt want a truly 7 day NHS?

I don't think the concept of a 7 day NHS is wrong.

What is wrong is trying to deliver it with no extra resource.

 

[Freakbro]

Roll your eyes all you like, you can't argue that the Juniour Drs going out on strike from emergency and intensive care, not just the elective side, is not going to result in a massively increased risk for people over the next two days, with very potentially some deaths being attributed to it. If not, then what are they doing?

But, saying that, the appeal to emotion that mulps is using doesn't hold water really, you can't make an omelette without cracking some eggs, in the bigger picture of things like this a few deaths aren't important. (Well, obviously only to the people that are directly affected by the deaths)

 

[Ryan-3]

of all the areas they can make cuts I think stiffing junior doctors is a really bad one... in the grand scheme of things it is a drop in the ocean

They'd be better off increasing funding to HMRC (and IMO perhaps considering paying higher than normal salaries to poach tax specialists from the private sector) and cracking down more on evasion plus investigating and looking at closing down avoidance schemes that take the mickey. They could also start bullying some tax havens... plenty of which are UK territories of some form or another!

And of course carry on with the benefits cuts too. There are clearly inefficiencies in both tax collection and welfare distribution and those are the main areas we need to improve - stiffing junior doctors is a bad move.

I agree completely with this.

Tax havens like the Isle of Man and the Channel islands. Why should those rich enough to have a business/property/whatever located in these places and make their money in the UK not have their earnings treated in the same way any average person would have theirs taxed?

Behind the scenes at the NHS is hugely inefficient. GP's in my area are mostly useless, but those who work hardest, like the junior doctors are being hit.

"People will die because of this strike" - die because the rich want to be richer? Makes me wonder if we ever moved past Victorian Britain. And they absolutely won't. They're striking, but still ready to spring into action if an emergency arises. The tories are just hitting those who can't just walk out and try to make the public side with them, just like they did with the fire service.

 

[Combat squirrel]

People that don't think this is a move towards privatisation are just kidding themselves. CLEARLY it is a tactic, a lot of the MP's have far to many shares in US based private healthcare for them to not want to profit from it, this will make a select few people 'endless' money, its far to profitable for them to not do this - its horrific and further proof we don't live in a true democracy.

 

[Uther]

Jeremy Hunt says that this will be his last big job in politics. I wonder which lucrative career he'll be taking up next?

A nice board position with a private healthcare company perhaps?

 

[wildman]

Who would you trust, a doctor or a politician?

neither based on current form

Doctors putting lives at risk over pay

Politicians always economising with the truth

both parties are just as much to blame for this fiasco

 

[Danthus]

A nice board position with a private healthcare company perhaps?

Like Andrew Lansley?

 

[Delvis]

neither based on current form

Doctors putting lives at risk over pay

Politicians always economising with the truth

both parties are just as much to blame for this fiasco

Oh okay, so just bend over and accept the new terms for the doctors then?

Yay

 

[EddScott]

Was it the Irish doctor?

No, two young lads. One was apparently on the bake off program for some reason, the striking one. Seemed a bit of a jack the lad type, full of union spiel etc.

The one that had accepted the contract was a fairly dour looking chap but probably the one you'd feel more comfortable with when his hands are inside you

Hunt says we need a 7 day NHS, we already have one

We don't have an effective 7 day NHS.

As a total new comer to this why does Hunt want a truly 7 day NHS?

Is what we have now simply not good enough?

With very few doctors working on weekends, it's almost impossible to get anything done. If medication needs prescribing you need a doctor to sign it off. No doctor, no meds. If a patients symptoms become acute at the weekend you may or may not see a doctor and even if you do it's probably only to fire fight the situation until Monday.

I don't think the concept of a 7 day NHS is wrong.

What is wrong is trying to deliver it with no extra resource.

Would agree wholeheartedly here.

 

[Danthus]

With very few doctors working on weekends, it's almost impossible to get anything done. If medication needs prescribing you need a doctor to sign it off. No doctor, no meds. If a patients symptoms become acute at the weekend you may or may not see a doctor and even if you do it's probably only to fire fight the situation until Monday.

But if you have the same pool of resource and you want them to cover a longer period of time you have to spread that resource thinner.

 

[Squink]

But, saying that, the appeal to emotion that mulps is using doesn't hold water really, you can't make an omelette without cracking some eggs, in the bigger picture of things like this a few deaths aren't important. (Well, obviously only to the people that are directly affected by the deaths)

This is a truly bizarre thing to say. Every unnecessary death is vitally important to the people affected by it. This isn't a case of "breaking a few eggs to get the job done", doctors are there to save lives, not use them as a political bargaining chip to enrich themselves!

 

[Ryan-3]

Doctors putting lives at risk over pay
-not when they're still prepared for action if called upon they aren't.


Politicians always economising with the truth
- you can't be serious?

 

[Freakbro]

This is a truly bizarre thing to say. Every unnecessary death is vitally important to the people affected by it.

Which is what I said

This isn't a case of "breaking a few eggs to get the job done", doctors are there to save lives, not use them as a political bargaining chip to enrich themselves!

Their argument is they are doing this for the long term benefit of the NHS, so some short term risks/deaths are acceptable for the long term health of the nation.

I am equating that viewpoint to being like a General in a war, you can't concern yourself with the deaths of the individual troops when you are making the battle plans for the overall victory.

So of course there are arguments for and against this strike, but don't use the appeal to emotion of 'someones mother' or 'only son' as it's a weak point in the bigger picture of the argument.

 

[Squink]

Which is what I said



Their argument is they are doing this for the long term benefit of the NHS, so some short term risks/deaths are acceptable for the long term health of the nation.

I am equating that viewpoint to being like a General in a war, you can't concern yourself with the deaths of the individual troops when you are making the battle plans for the overall victory.

So of course there are arguments for and against this strike, but don't use the appeal to emotion of 'someones mother' or 'only son' as it's a weak point in the bigger picture of the argument.

Who gave junior doctors the right to choose what's right for the NHS? I didn't vote for them and neither did you. And why are you comparing doctors to soldiers?

There is no bigger picture. If someone dies unnecessarily because of this strike it's because the doctors and government are too busy blaming each other to fulfill their responsibilities.

 

[Danthus]

Hunt refuses to talk.

 

[Freakbro]

Who gave junior doctors the right to choose what's right for the NHS?

No-one gave them the 'right'....they think they know because they are working in it.

But I'm not supporting the strike as it seems to me more about their pay rather than patient safety, because they are tired and overworked as it is, they just dont want less perks for being the same amount of tired and overworked - no matter how many times minsta says I'm wrong

This is in a profession that is already the highest earning one from having a degree

I didn't vote for them and neither did you.

I didn't vote for the Tories either

And why are you comparing doctors to soldiers?

There is no bigger picture.

I'm not comparing them, and I disagree, it is all about the bigger picture

If someone dies unnecessarily because of this strike it's because the doctors and government are too busy blaming each other to fulfill their responsibilities.

Yep, I agree with you there, but then, people die unecessarily all the time, even when the Jnr Drs are at work

 

[Ryan-3]

Who gave junior doctors the right to choose what's right for the NHS?

Who gave Hunt the ability to underpay the most overworked group of people in the NHS? Unless he's decreasing their pay on his own experience of doing the job.. (As someone who once tried selling marmalade to the Japanese, I highly doubt it.) We have a shortage of well qualified staff to begin with, what does he expect to achieve? A budget cut?

Cut MP pay and expenses. There's a handy cut.

 

[tres]

So even if this contract does go through and gets accepted and becomes the norm...

What's going to happen with the tens of THOUSANDS of vacant job posts as a result? There are so, so many leaving the country, or medicine as a career, because of it. The vacant posts won't be filled because the new locum rates (rightly or wrongly) are capped at such a level, most doctors won't take them.

Morale has gone, it's at rock bottom. I know so many junior doctors that are actively looking for other careers because of their treatment. And be prepared for the influx of Indian, Sri Lankan etc doctors. Because they're the only ones that would come and work here.

 

[VincentHanna]

Ironically due to the cap on non EU migration, the Government wouldn't be able to hire any doctors and nurses from abroad to fill their places

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33101336

 

[Freakbro]

So even if this contract does go through and gets accepted and becomes the norm...

What's going to happen with the tens of THOUSANDS of vacant job posts as a result?

We'll see if people really do quit their jobs, I highly suspect the vast majority won't and if they do, well we'll all be ****** for a while

There are so, so many leaving the country, or medicine as a career, because of it.

Which is what we've said all along, don't like it, then leave or retrain for a new career if you lose, which you might not yet.

The vacant posts won't be filled because the new locum rates (rightly or wrongly) are capped at such a level, most doctors won't take them.

This is the bit that annoys me and shows it is directly about money. We've seen these 'low' rates even the capped ones are at, and most (all?) people I know would chop their right arm off to be paid that for a shift.....well, maybe not today as they wouldn't get treated

And be prepared for the influx of Indian, Sri Lankan etc doctors. Because they're the only ones that would come and work here.

And that's different to now...how? I think the last white doctor I saw was Polish and that was quite a few years ago.