PCN received today

Soldato
Joined
4 Mar 2008
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Wandsworth
Hi guys,

My parents just got a pcn through the lost (they're the registered owners of my car) about me parking in Tyneside in April. Having looked at the photos it was when I parked at the aquarium. I definitely paid for a ticket, but must have placed it upside down by accident on the dashboard (the photo evidence also shows the ticket upside down on the dash). Now this is obviously my fault, however the photos also show a PCN attached to my car and I am 100% confident that it was not there when I returned to to the car and have therefore have not paid (or had any knowledge of) the PCN until I got a call from my parents this morning.

The original charge was £25 and it is now £50 (I would have paid the £25 if I'd known about it!)

Im going to write a letter explaining all the above (and hopefully I can find the ticket I bought) and see what they say. Is there anything extra I should include in said letter/what are the chances of them being nice?

Cheers

Ali

EDIT: damn meant to post in Motors, could a mod please move? Thanks
 
If you can find the ticket you can fight it no problem, have done something similar, my ticket fell off the dash, posted evidence of the ticket and the PCN was dropped.
 
If you still have the ticket they should just cancel the charge if you send them a copy. The missus's dad had the same happen, he just wrote to them with a copy of the ticket and they cancelled it straight off.
 
I will look for the ticket later, just annoying if I can't find it, as if the PCN has been on the car I would have the ticket and sent it to them! Obviously as I didn't think I needed it I may have thrown it out
 
Some one snatched the PCN off my car one day and I didn't know I had a fine until the letter came in the post. I contested it on that basis and they allowed me to pay the discounted rate
 
Someone will be along soon to tell you to ignore it no doubt.

I've had a similar dealing with a private company before - I made a genuine mistake (service station, had to pay inside, was there at 4am so missed the signs, got caught by the ANPR) but the first I heard about it was the second warning and the charge had trippled. I sent them a firm but polite email explaining that I'd pay them the original fee but wasnt willing to pay any of the increased/admin charges. A few hours later I had an apologetic email in reply and a cancellation of the charge outright.

Ignoring it isnt always the best solution, especially when its quite a simple situation
 
Why can you no longer simply ignore pcn's from private companies? What changed?

Approved parking operators were granted more powers YEARS ago when wheel clamping became illegal.

Ignoring them is probably OK in situations that are completely stupid but for simple stuff like this, just contacting them is just more sensible.

The only way they can force you to pay is through small claims, which some companies will do - and if you've just ignored the communication then you may not have a great time in court!
 
Approved parking operators were granted more powers YEARS ago when wheel clamping became illegal.

Ignoring them is probably OK in situations that are completely stupid but for simple stuff like this, just contacting them is just more sensible.

The only way they can force you to pay is through small claims, which some companies will do - and if you've just ignored the communication then you may not have a great time in court!

Thanks Iain :)
 
Explain that there's clearly a ticket in the photo and that you will not be paying the fine. Upside down is irrelevant. All they can legally charge you for is loss and expense so if they get stroppy and won't cancel the fine just ask them to demonstrate loss and expense. In this case there isn't any so they can't demonstrate anything. Don't pay it, don't worry.
 
Explain that there's clearly a ticket in the photo and that you will not be paying the fine. Upside down is irrelevant. All they can legally charge you for is loss and expense so if they get stroppy and won't cancel the fine just ask them to demonstrate loss and expense. In this case there isn't any so they can't demonstrate anything. Don't pay it, don't worry.

Don't do this :rolleyes:
 
Explain that there's clearly a ticket in the photo and that you will not be paying the fine. Upside down is irrelevant. All they can legally charge you for is loss and expense so if they get stroppy and won't cancel the fine just ask them to demonstrate loss and expense. In this case there isn't any so they can't demonstrate anything. Don't pay it, don't worry.

Not true.

For anyone who cares, this is a fairly interesting part where they address this:

ParkingEye concedes that the £85 is payable upon a breach of contract, and that it is not a pre-estimate of damages. As it was not the owner of the car park, ParkingEye could not recover damages, unless it was in possession, in which case it may be able to recover a small amount of damages for trespass. This is because it lost nothing by the unauthorised use resulting from Mr Beavis overstaying. On the contrary, at least if the £85 is payable, it gains by the unauthorised use, since its revenues are wholly derived from the charges for breach of the terms. The notice at the entrance describes ParkingEye as being engaged to provide a “traffic space maximisation scheme”, which is an exact description of its function. In the agreed Statement of Facts and Issues, the parties state that “the predominant purpose of the parking charge was to deter motorists from overstaying”, and that the landowner’s objectives include the following:

“a. The need to provide parking spaces for their commercial tenants’ prospective customers;

b. The desirability of that parking being free so as to attract customers;

c. The need to ensure a reasonable turnover of that parking so as to increase the potential number of such customers;

d. The related need to prevent ‘misuse’ of the parking for purposes unconnected with the tenants’ business, for example by commuters going to work or shoppers going to off-park premises; and

e. The desirability of running that parking scheme at no cost, or ideally some profit, to themselves.”

98. Against this background, it can be seen that the £85 charge had two main objects. One was to manage the efficient use of parking space in the interests of the retail outlets, and of the users of those outlets who wish to find spaces in which to park their cars. This was to be achieved by deterring commuters or other long-stay motorists from occupying parking spaces for long periods or engaging in other inconsiderate parking practices, thereby reducing the space available to other members of the public, in particular the customers of the retail outlets. The other purpose was to provide an income stream to enable ParkingEye to meet the costs of operating the scheme and make a profit from its services, without which those services would not be available. These two objectives appear to us to be perfectly reasonable in themselves. Subject to the penalty rule and the Regulations, the imposition of a charge to deter overstayers is a reasonable mode of achieving them. Indeed, once it is resolved to allow up to two hours free parking, it is difficult to see how else those objectives could be achieved.

99. In our opinion, while the penalty rule is plainly engaged, the £85 charge is not a penalty. The reason is that although ParkingEye was not liable to suffer loss as a result of overstaying motorists, it had a legitimate interest in charging them which extended beyond the recovery of any loss. The scheme in operation here (and in many similar car parks) is that the landowner authorises ParkingEye to control access to the car park and to impose the agreed charges, with a view to managing the car park in the interests of the retail outlets, their customers and the public at large. That is an interest of the landowners because (i) they receive a fee from ParkingEye for the right to operate the scheme, and (ii) they lease sites on the retail park to various retailers, for whom the availability of customer parking was a valuable facility. It is an interest of ParkingEye, because it sells its services as the managers of such schemes and meets the costs of doing so from charges for breach of the terms (and if the scheme was run directly by the landowners, the analysis would be no different). As we have pointed out, deterrence is not penal if there is a legitimate interest in influencing the conduct of the contracting party which is not satisfied by the mere right to recover damages for breach of contract. Mr Butcher QC, who appeared for the Consumers’ Association (interveners), submitted that because ParkingEye was the contracting party its interest was the only one which could count. For the reason which we have given, ParkingEye had a sufficient interest even if that submission be correct. But in our opinion it is not correct. The penal character of this scheme cannot depend on whether the landowner operates it himself or employs a contractor like ParkingEye to operate it. The motorist would not know or care what if any interest the operator has in the land, or what relationship it has with the landowner if it has no interest. This conclusion is reinforced when one bears in mind that the question whether a contractual provision is a penalty turns on the construction of the contract, which cannot normally turn on facts not recorded in the contract unless they are known, or could reasonably be known, to both parties.

100. None of this means that ParkingEye could charge overstayers whatever it liked. It could not charge a sum which would be out of all proportion to its interest or that of the landowner for whom it is providing the service. But there is no reason to suppose that £85 is out of all proportion to its interests. The trial judge, Judge Moloney QC, found that the £85 charge was neither extravagant nor unconscionable having regard to the level of charges imposed by local authorities for overstaying in car parks on public land. The Court of Appeal agreed and so do we. It is higher than the penalty that a motorist would have had to pay for overstaying in an on-street parking space or a local authority car park. But a local authority would not necessarily allow two hours of free parking, and in any event the difference is not substantial. The charge is less than the maximum above which members of the BPA must justify their charges under their code of practice. The charge is prominently displayed in large letters at the entrance to the car park and at frequent intervals within it. The mere fact that many motorists regularly use the car park knowing of the charge is some evidence of its reasonableness. They are not constrained to use this car park as opposed to other parking facilities provided by local authorities, Network Rail, commercial car park contractors or other private landowners. They must regard the risk of having to pay £85 for overstaying as an acceptable price for the convenience of parking there. The observations of Lord Browne-Wilkinson in Workers Bank at p 580 referred to in para 35 above are in point. While not necessarily conclusive, the fact that ParkingEye’s payment structure in its car parks (free for two hours and then a relatively substantial sum for overstaying) and the actual level of charge for overstaying (£85) are common in the UK provides support for the proposition that the charge in question is not a penalty. No other evidence was furnished by Mr Beavis to show that the charge was excessive.

101. We conclude, in agreement with the courts below, that the charge imposed on Mr Beavis was not a penalty.
http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKSC/2015/67.html
 
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It was issued by Tyneside Council not a private company, does that make any difference? But Yes I will send them an email explaining that the PCN was obviously removed so I will pay the initial £25 but not the £50. Unfortunately I think I've thrown the ticket out
 
Yes - Council are fines, private are invoices

Speak to the council you'll probably find they drop it - always places like pepipoo to give a hand with wording
 
It was issued by Tyneside Council not a private company, does that make any difference? But Yes I will send them an email explaining that the PCN was obviously removed so I will pay the initial £25 but not the £50. Unfortunately I think I've thrown the ticket out

Can you see the ticket details in the photo ?
 
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