Sports trading / Betfair trading

Diddums

Diddums

Diddums

Caporegime
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This seems to be another one of those niches where people are making a bit of money on the side. I'm wondering if it's worth looking in to properly to do whilst I wait for my matched bets to come in. This appears to have an entire industry around it, with software, bots, courses, videos, blogs, etc etc all earning off it so I thought I'd have a look.

Anyone do this or know how it works? Got any tips or decent resources? I've done a bit of Googling and all the stuff I've found is either "MAKE £100B A DAY FROM HOME buy my ebook for £50 to learn how" or mumbo jumbo which is more for advanced traders.

I expect Dowie to put in a full report broken down in stupid for me but any other input is greatly appreciated :D
 
nope, unlike matched betting where there is a pool of cash in the form of a marketing budget and you're just taking money off the bookies due to the inherent +EV these bonuses give you with trading you're actively competing against other users... if there is an obvious edge and it gets exploited then by exploiting it you start to erode it

so whereas someone can write a simple guide to matched betting and people can all pile in (maybe eroding that edge a bit over time as offers become less generous) with trading you're unlikely to find useful step by step guides as firstly it isn't in the interest of people to share and secondly if someone did share something obvious that you could exploit and it did become popular then it wouldn't likely be exploitable any more

same applies to handicapping too, people definitely aren't going to share models there as the people with seriously good models/information are multi millionaires (or potentially even billionaires in a couple of cases)

that isn't to say you won't find lots of information claiming to be useful re: trading, I'm sure there are plenty of websites and videos there claiming that they'll show you how etc..
 
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As Dowie says, where's the edge? Most trading strategies I've seen suggested are basically just gambling.
 
You need extreme patience, a big bank roll, £5000+ and be prepared to lose the lot and a very long time to learn every market you wish to trade in and to spot very small moves made and to also notice these things instantly, luck can never come into it either, if you take any luck as a good result it will come around and bite you in the arse and you will lose, you will then chase this loss and lose more and more.

Best advice, practice for a min of 3 months by running simulations on the markets you wish to trade in, keep all data regarding bets\lays and winnings and losses, and then practice for another 3 months and repeat, it is very hard and i would say 99% of people who do this lose everything or give up.

I have done a lot of reading on this in the past and i found people generally thought only ~2% of all people active on the exchanges actually make a living out of doing this.

Without research, statistics, practice and a big bank roll i wouldn't try it if i was you.

Also, your BB connection, if it fails and you have a lot of money traded and in play and it all goes wrong, your screwed. I now someone who has three separate BB connections including 4g via tablet\phone and multiple computers\tablets just incase hardware\broadband start to play up and atleast he can still get online to salvage any trades he has in play.


If after the above you think you still want to try it, have a look here:

http://www.gruss-software.co.uk/page/53/About-us.htm

These started as 2 guys around the same time as betfair etc started up, they know their stuff inside out and their software gets good reviews and it is cheap, of course you can program your own spreadsheets etc to connect to betfair and place bets for you, but unless you know excel inside out i wouldn't risk losing your money and get some help with the above.

Also have a good read through betfairs own app and tools guides, knowledge is what you need, so the more you learn the less likely you will bomb out.

https://apps.betfair.com/

Good luck if you go for it, search google for as much info as possible, oh and if people do have strategies that earn them a living, good luck in finding them, they keep them to themselves, as why would they tell the internet.
 
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I trade on sports. My next door neighbour got me into it as a little means to bump my income. It's his full time occupation and he estimates to earn on average £2000-3000 a month, all tax free. I am not as heavy as him so my income varies, but I usually make at least £150 a week.

It's like dealing in shares. If dealing in shares was easy, everyone would be millionaires, but it's not easy. Certain people like Caan Berry and Peter Webb (these boys are on megabucks) seem to have a natural talent for it, just like some stockbrokers do. Others have to rely on education, and watching youtube vids from Caan Berry and Peter Webb is a great way to start. My opening bankroll was just £500. I started on £50 stakes and made sure I traded out on every trade (as you should) even if it meant taking a small loss. I had to select my prices carefully though with such a low bankroll. Once I got to a couple of thousand it started to become a lot easier. My neighbour started 3 years ago with his £8k redundancy money. At that level you can go in with £200-£500 stakes. bigger profit, but bigger losses if it goes ass over face.

Read as much as you can about it, watch as many videos, learn to read charts as best as you can, visit trading forums, but most of all you need to actually do it. You can grab a demo of a program like Betangel which has a practice mode where you dont risk real money, but personally, I find your emotions are completely different when you dont risk any money and you take more silly risks like letting a market go in play. I would always use real money, just keep it very small. £2-£5 stakes wont be such a disaster if you make sure you trade out before the off for either a profit or loss. Just dont do stupid things like laying a horse for a fiver at 50-1 and letting it go in play if you are on a loss because you are sure it will lose the race. Discipline is key.

But dont take too much notice of all the naysayers. Everyone likes to bat down every idea someone has of making money. The fact is that it does work, many are making plenty of money doing it and who knows, you may be able to as well. It's good to have a bit of a backup as matched betting wont last forever (or at least your accounts wont).
 
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Diddums said:
This seems to be another one of those niches where people are making a bit of money on the side. I'm wondering if it's worth looking in to properly to do whilst I wait for my matched bets to come in. This appears to have an entire industry around it, with software, bots, courses, videos, blogs, etc etc all earning off it so I thought I'd have a look.

Anyone do this or know how it works? Got any tips or decent resources? I've done a bit of Googling and all the stuff I've found is either "MAKE £100B A DAY FROM HOME buy my ebook for £50 to learn how" or mumbo jumbo which is more for advanced traders.

I expect Dowie to put in a full report broken down in stupid for me but any other input is greatly appreciated :D
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I have started to read a lot about this in the past month. I am also extremely interested in the process. I am very wary of the ability to make huge mistakes though (especially when match betting tends to teach you to avoid that), but I am also aware that mistakes are part of the process of gaining invaluable experience.
 
beh said:
If someone does have a genuine edge then why would they publish/sell that information?
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'edges' dont really exist. The only real edge people have is when they get info from trainers and owners. There is nothing else really. It's down to your own hard work.
 
beh said:
If someone does have a genuine edge then why would they publish/sell that information?
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exactly

robfosters said:
'edges' dont really exist. The only real edge people have is when they get info from trainers and owners. There is nothing else really. It's down to your own hard work.
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Without an edge or positive expectation for your bets you don't make money aside from by luck alone.
 
dowie said:
Without an edge or positive expectation for your bets you don't make money aside from by luck alone.
Click to expand...

That positive expectation comes from the ability to be able to read markets better than others to predict the direction of a price. Its something you learn, not something you just get given or buy.
 
robfosters said:
I trade on sports. My next door neighbour got me into it as a little means to bump my income. It's his full time occupation and he estimates to earn on average £2000-3000 a month, all tax free. I am not as heavy as him so my income varies, but I usually make at least £150 a week.

It's like dealing in shares. If dealing in shares was easy, everyone would be millionaires, but it's not easy. Certain people like Caan Berry and Peter Webb (these boys are on megabucks) seem to have a natural talent for it, just like some stockbrokers do. Others have to rely on education, and watching youtube vids from Caan Berry and Peter Webb is a great way to start. My opening bankroll was just £500. I started on £50 stakes and made sure I traded out on every trade (as you should) even if it meant taking a small loss. I had to select my prices carefully though with such a low bankroll. Once I got to a couple of thousand it started to become a lot easier. My neighbour started 3 years ago with his £8k redundancy money. At that level you can go in with £200-£500 stakes. bigger profit, but bigger losses if it goes ass over face.

Read as much as you can about it, watch as many videos, learn to read charts as best as you can, visit trading forums, but most of all you need to actually do it. You can grab a demo of a program like Betangel which has a practice mode where you dont risk real money, but personally, I find your emotions are completely different when you dont risk any money and you take more silly risks like letting a market go in play. I would always use real money, just keep it very small. £2-£5 stakes wont be such a disaster if you make sure you trade out before the off for either a profit or loss. Just dont do stupid things like laying a horse for a fiver at 50-1 and letting it go in play if you are on a loss because you are sure it will lose the race. Discipline is key.

But dont take too much notice of all the naysayers. Everyone likes to bat down every idea someone has of making money. The fact is that it does work, many are making plenty of money doing it and who knows, you may be able to as well. It's good to have a bit of a backup as matched betting wont last forever (or at least your accounts wont).
Click to expand...

I agree with pretty much everything you say, what i posted was from when i was looking at trying around 6-7 years ago, it was a lot different then to now, i tried to concentrate on the horse racing side of it, you are correct though, discipline, if you don't have that you won't succeed and you will lose and chase losses.

My circumstances changed so in the end i didn't have a go, but i have been thinking recently about giving it another look.
 
robfosters said:
That positive expectation comes from the ability to be able to read markets better than others to predict the direction of a price. Its something you learn, not something you just get given or buy.
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that positive expectation can come from numerous things, some subjective 'read' on the markets from 'experience' is probably the least reliable for most people

but yes the point is that people aren't generally in the habit of sharing edges for the rather obvious reasons already mentioned
 
Actually I've debated whether to post this as I'm quite anti this sort of thing. So while this might be a bit hypocritical of me to share I do think that this guy is much more useful than most of the supposed gurus out there:


(Mods I know business promotion isn't allowed but I've got no financial interest in the above, it is just a really good video!)
 
dowie said:
Actually I've debated whether to post this as I'm quite anti this sort of thing. So while this might be a bit hypocritical of me to share I do think that this guy is much more useful than most of the supposed gurus out there:


(Mods I know business promotion isn't allowed but I've got no financial interest in the above, it is just a really good video!)
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gXcQ
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Not this time. :p
 
Interesting thread, I've been testing a few ideas for a month or so now and been using the gruss software for that month (30 days free trial)

Great software/interface with betfair. Going to run another month or so testing out what works best for me. Using very small stakes currently £2-£5, doing some scalping and also some automated spreadsheet backing using excel/forumlas etc.

It's money i'm ok with losing however using stop losses and low stakes at the moment so generally that's unlike to happen in one big hit.

Tennis (french open) is decent for scalping - lots of opportunities (good and bad). I'm making a few mistakes, but learning from them and so far whilst I've been working through a few different ways of trading, I'm about even for the month, just slightly down the last couple of days.

Overall - something different, always had an interest in trading/betting etc but certainly taking it slowly and easy at the moment to see what i find is my best longer term option.

Gruss really is superb software and even for £6 after the free 30 days, it's well worth that price.
 
So day one of my sport trading for real. (using gruss software)

Aiming to grow my bank by a small but sensible amount per day. Mainly scalping at the moment so will see what happens (horses and tennis)

Starting with a fairly low bank in general terms. £330 in betfair (got another £400 across various other bookies if required)

Aiming for 2% per day profit on my bank. So £6.60 profit today is what I'm aiming for. Nothing amazing on a £330 bank but slow and steady till I get more confident.

Mainly £10 stakes looking for 1 tick profit and out with a 3 or 4 tick stop loss.
 
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