Tax - how much of your gross do you pay?

platypus said:
You wouldn't meet your legal obligation :confused:?
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What business is it of the HMRC if I have bank accounts and/or investments abroad? Though if they have a double jeopardy clause (i.e. you cannot be taxed on it twice) then I guess that is fair, i.e. if you pay tax in the country of the investment then you should not have to pay in the other country IMO.

This is of course theoretical. But something I have considered in the past.

I do have foreign bank accounts, but nothing is paid into them from earnings (it's just easier having an account in the countries those countries) - and I have not told the HMRC I have them.
 
Freefaller said:
What business is it of the HMRC if I have bank accounts and/or investments abroad?

This is of course theoretical. But something I have considered in the past.

I do have foreign bank accounts, but nothing is paid into them from earnings - and I have not told the HMRC I have them.
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Do you receive income in them? E.g. interest, capital gains etc.? If so you should be declaring them and are required to do so if you're a UK resident.

Edit: sorry, you may need to declare them.
 
Freefaller said:
What business is it of the HMRC if I have bank accounts and/or investments abroad? Though if they have a double jeopardy clause (i.e. you cannot be taxed on it twice) then I guess that is fair, i.e. if you pay tax in the country of the investment then you should not have to pay in the other country IMO.

This is of course theoretical. But something I have considered in the past.

I do have foreign bank accounts, but nothing is paid into them from earnings (it's just easier having an account in the countries those countries) - and I have not told the HMRC I have them.
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Whether it's any of HMRCs business is moot. I was asking if/why you'd purposefully ignore your legal obligation.

I didn't say I agreed with the obligation, did I?
 
The Mad Rapper said:
Morality doesn't come into it; if it's legal then it's fair game.
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Just because morality doesn't come into it doesn't mean it shouldn't.

Why should people who can't employ the same tax avoidance techniques in theory foot more of the tax bill?

Flukester said:
This thread smells of oppressed PAYEers who have a chip on shoulder, and it smells bad
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It also smells of self-righteous, smug tax avoiders. Whats your point?
 
platypus said:
Whether it's any of HMRCs business is moot. I was asking if/why you'd purposefully ignore your legal obligation.

I didn't say I agreed with the obligation, did I?
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If I was in that situation, yes I would ignore it.

If I could avoid the tax legally then I'd clearly prefer to do it that way. Now of course there may be a mechanism by which you could do it legally.

I'm 100% for being able to minimise your tax liabilities like the OP and others in this thread. And I'm a PAYE person on an average salary.
 
Freefaller said:
If I was in that situation, yes I would ignore it.
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What makes you think you're above the law?

FWIW I declare both French and UK investments to both authorities, and as there is a double tax treaty it doesn't cause any issues. Not sure why you feel you're special enough to warrant not having to do this. Plus, whats the real difference? If you hide it from the UK authorities they will get what they need from the French eventually. Why not just be upfront about it?
 
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Freefaller said:
I'm 100% for being able to minimise your tax liabilities like the OP and others in this thread. And I'm a PAYE person on an average salary.
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Well, I'm sort of on the fence about it. I don't mind it half as much as it might appear.

What really ticks me off is the self-righteous smug [legal]avoiders like the OP, Flukester, Mad Rapper etc who take great enjoyment in pointing out how much they can avoid, and keep telling people how much of a mug they are for being on PAYE and being annoyed that they can't avoid more tax.
 
platypus said:
What makes you think you're above the law?

FWIW I declare both French and UK investments to both authorities, and as there is a double tax treaty it doesn't cause any issues. Not sure why you feel you're special enough to warrant not having to do this. Plus, whats the real difference? If you hide it from the UK authorities they will get what they need from the French eventually.
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I'm not special. I don't think I'm above the law so... Well your over inflated sense of moral indignation isn't really necessary. I don't get why you're getting so aggressive?

Why do you think I am talking about France? Im just suggesting foreign investments, they don't have to be in France.

If there's no double jeopardy then great, there wouldn't be a problem as I could declare my interests. Clearly I'd talk to an account and make sure I pay the minimum or no tax unless I had to. Or, if I felt I was going to get ripped off, keep it to myself.

You do realise this is all theoretical? Whilst I do have a bank account in other countries, they are there for the convenience not for any nefarious activities. Though clearly you want an example... So my family comes over here and I give them £200, and they'll deposit the same amount in Euros in my French account or my accounts I have in other countries that I have lived long enough to open an account in. Just makes life easier.

I may accrue a little interest, but frankly, I'm not willing to declare it because frankly the time and effort for me to do that is worth more to me than the value of the interest if any at all.
 
platypus said:
Just because morality doesn't come into it doesn't mean it shouldn't.

Why should people who can't employ the same tax avoidance techniques in theory foot more of the tax bill?


It also smells of self-righteous, smug tax avoiders. Whats your point?
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Cry more. Get it all out. When you can respond in a way that doesn't make me picture you like a petulant child then I might deign to respond to your question properly.
 
Freefaller said:
I'm not special. I don't think I'm above the law so... Well your over inflated sense of moral indignation isn't really necessary. I don't get why you're getting so aggressive?
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I think you're being a little sensitive, but I'll apologise. I obviously misunderstood that when you said you would refuse to meet your legal obligation, you don't actually consider yourself above the law. My bad.

Why do you think I am talking about France? Im just suggesting foreign investments, they don't have to be in France.
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Bad assumption on my part.

I may accrue a little interest, but frankly, I'm not willing to declare it because frankly the time and effort for me to do that is worth more to me than the value of the interest if any at all.
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It's your legal obligation to declare it, thats what I found odd about your original statement.
 
platypus said:
Well, I'm sort of on the fence about it. I don't mind it half as much as it might appear.

What really ticks me off is the self-righteous smug [legal]avoiders like the OP, Flukester, Mad Rapper etc who take great enjoyment in pointing out how much they can avoid, and keep telling people how much of a mug they are for being on PAYE and being annoyed that they can't avoid more tax.
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Well why not even the odds? Start your own business, and be in the same position? If I was enterprising enough, and had the get-go to do it, I'd be on it. But, I'm not. And I'm 'happy' to pay my taxes like the corporate tax slave I am.

Lots of people gloat, whether it be their car, bike, gym achievements, or just hoe much they own or whatever... So what? I don't care that people do better than me, I know I do better than others in other things.

Yes I agree the broken record thing is tiresome sometimes, but so what, it's easy to just skip a post.
 
I think the point is that you've crossed the line from "I pay what I legally have to and nothing more" to "I consider the law to be wrong so I will withhold information to ensure I don't lose money". You don't really get to decide the law is invalid because you feel it's ripping you off.
 
The higher rate of income tax needs scrapping.

Everyone paying the same percentage is justifiable - the more you earn the more you pay. It's possible to argue the fairness of that.

But having another bracket, where even more of your money gets taken because you have more of it - is not fair. It encourages people to avoid tax because they feel like the system is punishing them for their success.

It is not moral to take money from someone because they have more than you. This is commonly known as theft.

Edit:
- I'm saying you can't enforce the current system in the name of fairness, you have to make a fair system, then enforce that.
 
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billysielu said:
It is not moral to take money from someone because they have more than you. This is commonly known as theft.
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It stems from the ideal that those with more money can afford to pay more into the system to better fund the services that everyone uses, doesn't it? Not sure I agree with the top rate of tax btw.
 
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