Tories grant 18 fracking licences - all north of Leicester

It is better than nuclear in short term.
Got any idea how long it takes to build nuclear and that's without all the protesting and political delays.
Nuclear also is poor at peak loads, it's good fir providing base load to the grid. Gas is better for meeting fluctuations.
 
I am not suggesting Nuclear as a short term solution, that the decision to go ahead with fracking reinforces public opinion on oil and gas compared to nuclear.

You can have both though, nuclear long term and oil/gas short term.

To be honest neither are particularly popular with the public - what really needs to happen is that public opinion has minimal effect on the decisions made and it's actually left to people who know what they're talking about....
 
You can have both though, nuclear long term and oil/gas short term.

To be honest neither are particularly popular with the public - what really needs to happen is that public opinion has minimal effect on the decisions made and it's actually left to people who know what they're talking about....

Absolutely. Like the EU Referendum. ;)
 
Let's be honest anything north of Watford is a total dump so frack away!!!

Apologies for being a bit of a pedant, but I think you mean Watford Gap (in Northamptonshire) - the traditional border on the M1 between "The North" and "The South".
 
You can have both but Nuclear has always been used as the evil alternative when discussing energy options and it has reinforced the publics view in their misconception on it.

I agree that these decisions should be made by those experts in the field but when it comes down to public opinion, the most effective way to endorse an unpopular idea is by making other options less popular. Nuclear powers image in recent times has been moulded to fit the purpose of oil/gas giants and politicians. I would rather continue to import at high prices while fluffing up the appeal of cleaner alternatives like nuclear than lowering prices short term and demonising nuclear to make the decision for a filthy fuel look more appealing.

Having studied under a leading nuclear physicist i know exactly the image thats been painted and the struggle nuclear will have to go through before the public accept it as something other than glowing green goo barrel factory :rolleyes:
 
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My water comes from Kielder Reservoir. Just up the road. :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kielder_Water

If that was today it'd never get built, too many nimby's waving their placards about spoiling the countryside and chaining themselves to railings outside Parliament.

Aren't we sitting on enough nuclear fuel to last 1200 years or something like that?

When I was at school we were told we had enough coal to last us another 300 years. Look what happened to that!
 
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Why aren't we developing tidal energy more?

it is one of the most efficient, reliable, predictable types of energy there is!

Tidal as in turbines in estuaries and the like?

Here are some of the pros and cons, http://www.triplepundit.com/special/energy-options-pros-and-cons/tidal-power-pros-cons/#

It's not quite the perfect solution it's made out to be, the environmental impact can be quite large!

Wave power is another one, but again creating a cost effective, reliable device isn't as easy as it sounds (not to say we shouldn't invest in R&D).
 
Don't you just love Democracy in action :p

Are you saying you'd prefer it if we just had populist opinion control everything?

Nothing would EVER get built. Imagine what would have happened had we had a democratic process to decide where the Motorway network was built!
 
Don't you just love Democracy in action :p

The vast majority of the objections are unlikely to be from people covered by that council, so not really relevant to the whole "democracy" thing is it. :p

There's also the question of whether the objections are reasonable and have any scientific backing. I'm guessing a lot aren't and won't... :p
 
Can someone explain why nuclear is a good option in regards to cost? The proposed EDF sites seem very expensive and why have the UK government offered what appears to be 'very'generous unit prices for energy production. £20bn or so seems expensive and decontamination costs will probably sting as well.
 
The "water on fire" argument is related to fractures caused by the stimulation going from the reservoir/target area into aquifer layers and failed wells. In some parts of the states the reservoir and aquifers are reasonably close together. So there may be a possibility that in some isolated cases fractures could have propagated up to the reservoir, but as far as I'm aware there is no scientific data supporting this. In most places the reservoir and aquifer are so far away from each other (in the Yorkshire case several thousand feet) that the pressure needed to create those fractures would be HUGE!

The main argument of protestors now is well casing failure, but that's very unlikely too. The problem in North America is that many people have private wells for their water, many of which are already full of methane naturally (I know my other halves parents water fizzes, they leave it on the side to degas before using it) so many of these flame videos are nothing to do with fracking, just naturally occurring methane. Ther have been a few incidences of fracking causing failure of improperly abandoned wells however and gas leaking up through them. Again, as far as I know they are very rare and infrequent.

As for the chemical transportation, much of it is transported by tanker, but much of the actual flow back water is treated on site. I believe in Yorkshire it is going to be treated on site or transported by existing pipeline to their processing facility (that deals with water from their existing wells) and treated there. The problem with US analogies is they used to (and many places still do) have this habit of digging out large pits and dumping the flow back water in those, which are far more prone to leaking than sealed above ground tanks. They also had this odd habit of spreading it on roads in winter, because it was generally salty... :rolleyes:

Most of those sort of arguments are missing from the proper objections for the planning application above however, because they have well and truly been debunked, or minimized by legislation and regulation. Most of the objections are now relating to noise, lorry traffic and "local impact" on the community as well as how the area is precieved by tourists. Objections which are fairly standard in many planning applications and where councils and organizations generally have lots of experience in understanding and mitigating.

The argument for nuclear over gas doesn't really make sense? Last time I checked you couldn't buy a nuclear hob to cook your food. :p And on a more serious note you can't turn nuclear reactors off and on in short space of time, whereas gas turbines can be cold, then up and ready to generate electricity in half an hour or less. Gas also doesn't need direct subsidies, unlike nuclear. Currently and in the near future a combination of nuclear, gas and renewable is the best option so they don't really need to compete with each other anyway.
 
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Councillors eh, everyone an A Hole.

I couldn't give a stuff if they frack or not cause when we have voted to stay in the EU the UK will be a cesspit of migrants & not worth saving anyway.
 
For the record, my democracy comment was mostly tongue in cheek, hence the smiley :)

I understand how our representative democracy works, it just tickled me with such an overwhelming display of objection they just happily grant the go ahead, so I made a sarcastic comment :p

It's a little more significant being the first licence granted since the ban was lifted 4 years ago, but i'm sure the 20th won't even make the news.

I also agree with the comments about not asking the public on their opinion for everything as they are generally uneducated on complex matters, a bit like the EU referendum, hence we have people to make those decisions for us.
 
The problem is the gas that escapes before it gets into the pipe. It goes into the groundwater.

I think the main counter to these arguments is the gas can be in the water before any drilling occurs or thats what Ive read on the situation in some parts of the USA. Gas should be cheaper and healthier then oil use overall if its done correctly

Gas also doesn't need direct subsidies, unlike nuclear.
nuclear is the cheapest energy possible afaik. Its just a massive long term investment and presuming nothing goes wrong of course. UK has the ability to recycle reuse contain nuclear waste that other countries dont have afaik
 
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