On time OR within budget would at least be a step in the right direction
Edit: also inb4 "your mum's is bigger!"
Worlds longest tunnel
- Thread starter platypus
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On time OR within budget would at least be a step in the right direction
Edit: also inb4 "your mum's is bigger!"
Isnt it the fact that they need to basically clean up/work around Londons nasty foundations?
Switzerland: 'We're building a high speed rail system.'
UK: 'We had a look at that idea and decided it's too difficult because of all stuff in the way.'
Switzerland: 'Ours will go through mountains.'
UK: 'That sounds too much like work. Anyway you'll never get it deep enough.'
Switzerland: 'It runs 2.3km under a mountain at the lowest point.'
UK: 'It will be unaffordable.'
Switzerland: 'Actually it turned out to be quite cheap.'
UK: 'You'll be over budget.'
Switzerland: 'All projections show we'll be under budget.'
UK: 'This kind of thing always takes forever.'
Switzerland: 'Actually we've just finished. It opens this weekend.'
UK: '...'
Switzerland: 'I guess this explains why you don't have a decent high speed rail system yet.'
UK: 'We had a look at that idea and decided it's too difficult because of all stuff in the way.'
Switzerland: 'Ours will go through mountains.'
UK: 'That sounds too much like work. Anyway you'll never get it deep enough.'
Switzerland: 'It runs 2.3km under a mountain at the lowest point.'
UK: 'It will be unaffordable.'
Switzerland: 'Actually it turned out to be quite cheap.'
UK: 'You'll be over budget.'
Switzerland: 'All projections show we'll be under budget.'
UK: 'This kind of thing always takes forever.'
Switzerland: 'Actually we've just finished. It opens this weekend.'
UK: '...'
Switzerland: 'I guess this explains why you don't have a decent high speed rail system yet.'
unmolested mountain, compared to a extremely used and busy city underground. I wonder why it costs more. undeanth London is extremely busy with various services and foundations. digging through solid rock, isn't going to collapse a mountain. the same cant be said under London.
its like people why cant we do what the French did with the high speed network, we don't have empty land like they do.
I suspect it will be a variety of things, off the top of my head.
Massive amounts of survey work, then planning and implementing efforts to protect properties, they have to be really careful that any work they do won't affect buildings above and to the side of the tunnels.
Finding all the old utilities etc, London is riddled with old buildings and utilities that may not be well marked out, and routing around them or reouting the utilities.
Probably archaeological surveys and historical searches, the London area has been pretty much continually inhabited since the Romans and there are large numbers of old burial grounds and cemeteries that might cause issues (certainly when the underground was built they had to go though a number of old cemeteries). I'm not sure, but I think work may have been held up several times on the previous project when they found graves during survey work.
Then there are the multiple rounds of planning applications, court reviews and case that seem to accompany any infrastructure plan these days.
This is before any thought is given to differences in geology and thus the requirements for drilling and tunnel work, I wouldn't be surprised of the London tunnel boring efforts require a lot more drainage than in the Alps.
Switzerland: 'We're building a high speed rail system.'
UK: 'We had a look at that idea and decided it's too difficult because of all stuff in the way.'
Switzerland: 'Ours will go through mountains.'
UK: 'That sounds too much like work. Anyway you'll never get it deep enough.'
Switzerland: 'It runs 2.3km under a mountain at the lowest point.'
UK: 'It will be unaffordable.'
Switzerland: 'Actually it turned out to be quite cheap.'
UK: 'You'll be over budget.'
Switzerland: 'All projections show we'll be under budget.'
UK: 'This kind of thing always takes forever.'
Switzerland: 'Actually we've just finished. It opens this weekend.'
UK: '...'
Switzerland: 'I guess this explains why you don't have a decent high speed rail system yet.'
UK: 'All we can guarantee to be one time are endless protests and public enquiries...'
Considerably more complex I imagine :
- Multiple interception sites (platforms)
- Civilian traffic to coordinate (and ventilate etc)
- Congested London underground network to model to avoid clashes with other utilities
- Lots more public engagement /public consultation involved /required, and architectural requirements
I get the job of working on Londons biggest sewage tunnel ;D
That's about the size of it.
When I lived in the UK I was perpetually dumbfounded by the collective inertia that kept vital infrastructure projects in limbo while hundreds of millions were spent on entertainment facilities like Wembley.
By comparison,
Thames tideway is 25km long and estim!ate in total around £4.2 billion, including a 7km Stretch to Lee tunnel and an underground pump station.
(I appreciate they don't need to light /cable this tunnel however!)
(this figure has already doubled tho! Lol)
Thames tideway is 25km long and estim!ate in total around £4.2 billion, including a 7km Stretch to Lee tunnel and an underground pump station.
(I appreciate they don't need to light /cable this tunnel however!)
(this figure has already doubled tho! Lol)
Aye, that unfortunately seems the case all too often.
I'm fairly sure it's been cited as one of the main reasons a lot of projects never get done, the cost of the planning application and inevitable reviews, and reviews of the reviews followed by the court cases puts off investors.
That Gothard Base Tunnel is really impressive, and I suspect will be a lot safer than many of the older ones that were built before modern understanding of the requirements for fire safety (many of the old tunnels had no escape routes, just "shelters" that provided a place that should remain safe for a while but no way out).
![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
Exactly - all the stuff in the way versus one mountain. Which effectively means that for tunneling purposes there was nothing in the way. Tunneling through a mountain is different to tunneling under cities etc.
But this isn't because they went 2.3km below the surface so much as because the mountain is 10,000 feet tall!
It took TWENTY YEARS!
Isn't it sad that this is a thread where we all just knock our own country with rubbish hyperbole and no real understanding instead of praising the achievements of others?
There is nothing at all wrong with the timescale - it was a complex project, it takes time. But to mock how long it'd take us to do something like this when from conception to opening was almost a QUARTER OF A CENTURY is somewhat amusing.
Massive infrastructure projects are complex and time consuming. It's never quick in the West - it's only ever quick in places like China, where the operating environment is somewhat different..
There is a massive amount of M & E in the Tideway though, interceptors, pumping stations etc. Some very complex tunnelling and deep shafts in difficult ground adjacent to and under the river.
[TW]Fox;29568505 said:
I would be more inclined to praise the UK if it wasn't infamous for finding excuses not to do stuff.
These days it seems the only projects you can get off the ground in Britain are high rise buildings, sports stadiums, and posh redevelopments in the swankier parts of London. Public infrastructure is chronically neglected.
Isambard Kingdom Brunel must be spinning in his grave.
its chronically neglected because of NIMBY though, anything we set our sights on is dragged through the courts for decades.
we really need more laws restricting what you can legally complain about and/or a maximum time line and less appeals.
we really need more laws restricting what you can legally complain about and/or a maximum time line and less appeals.