shooting in gay club orlando

Glaucus said:
rofl, so you are ignoring FBI and Obama who have both said there's plenty of evidence of him being radicalised online.
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No? I even said from the start he was probably self radicalised from the Internet. That still doesn't discount his underlying personal motives to go down that path and if he was homosexual, that must have had huge conflicts in his psyche, hence the relevance of the target.

where youa ctually need to take it all in context and that is not what he posted.
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I was just replying to your quote on Evangelion, so if i've missed some context that's my bad, but I have kept up to date with the story, so I'm still open minded atm on his actual base motives.

And in response to old coals above, again...its not either or is it, but how much each had an influence on him.
 
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Freakbro said:
No? I even said from the start he was probably self radicalised from the Internet. That still doesn't discount his underlying personal motives to go down that path and if he was homosexual, that must have had huge conflicts in his psyche, hence the relevance of the target.
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that makes no sense in regard to what you posted, you accused me of using the self allegiance phone call as the smoking gun, when I've done nothing of the sort, I even posted about the fbi and Obama stating he was radicalised online. but you ignored that totally, and just went with that rather silly comment about smoking gun based on one fact.
 
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OldCoals said:
What about how Islam treats homosexuality, are you going to ignore that?
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No that is actually a part of the puzzle.

This man had obviously been taught that he's going to hell due to his homosexuality just like all homosexual Muslims. And this guy has now killed 50 innocent people? Somehow I don't think someone told him he's going to hell for killing 50 innocent people, it's more likely that he was taught that he will be rewarded in heaven or become closer to God for doing something for God like killing gays and becoming a martyr.
 
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Glaucus said:
that makes no sense in regard to what you posted, you accused me of using the self allegiance phone call as the smoking gun, when I've done nothing of the sort, I even posted about the fbi and Obama stating he was radicalised online. but you ignored that totally, and just went with that rather silly comment about smoking gun based on one fact.
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Well, earlier in the thread you posted

no evidence? so you ignore the self declared allegiance call to 999 then,
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Which I interpreted as you saying thats the 'smoking gun' of proof that he was motivated by extreme Islam

Apologies if I've misinterpreted you there...
 
estebanrey said:
Christianity isn't a massive fan either.....
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Depends on the type of Christianity, even the Catholic church is now vastly more tolerant, some fundaMENTaList types still rant and rave about it, but when I encunter these types they often grive a creepy aura, one ponders what they hide, maybe they are repressed themselves, or paedos, who knows.

Either way, it seems a bad thing, to rave against anything outwardly, when you are not divine yourself.
Splinter in your brothers eye, with a plank in your own.

The more a Christian talks of th old testament, the less Christian they are in my view. They'v missed the entire point of their own books and their own teachings.

No doubt it is the same within Islam, but I can't comment as I haven't read those entire texts, nor frankly do I want to. I think a decent more compass can be mostly worked out for oneself in a modern world.
 
wow, just wow.
so ignore recent stuff and go searching for something you weren't even replying to.

perhaps you need reminding of what you actually quoted, so stop being silly and trying to make it look better. it was in the quote you quoted and ignored it.

Glaucus said:
so you are just going to ignore all the evidence and cherry pic then.
plenty of evidence to show he was radicalised online and followed terrorist propergander, self declared etc.

things always have more than one contributing factor. but to ignore all other contributing factors is well stupid.

for example he might not of done if he wasn't radicalised, and saw it as a way to retone for his sins and get the afterlife. seeing as its one of the highest acalades to die fighting in such fanatic Islam teachings,
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Hikari Kisugi said:
The more a Christian talks of th old testament, the less Christian they are in my view. They'v missed the entire point of their own books and their own teachings.
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All from the New Testament....

Romans 1:26-27 [Paul]

“For this reason [idolatry] God gave them up to passions of dishonor; for even their females exchanged the natural use for that which is contrary to nature, and likewise also the males, having left the natural use of the female, were inflamed by their lust for one another, males with males, committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was fitting for their error.”
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Corinthians 6:9-10

"Do you not know that the unrighteous and the wrongdoers will not inherit or have any share in the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived (misled): neither the impure and immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor those who participate in homosexuality"
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Timothy 1:9-10

"Knowing and understanding this: that the Law is not enacted for the righteous (the upright and just, who are in right standing with God), but for the lawless and unruly, for the ungodly and sinful, for the irreverent and profane, for those who strike and beat and [even] murder fathers and strike and beat and [even] murder mothers, for manslayers,[For] impure and immoral persons, those who abuse themselves with men, kidnapers, liars, perjurers--and whatever else is opposed to wholesome teaching and sound doctrine
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Glaucus said:
wow, just wow.
so ignore recent stuff and go searching for something you weren't even replying to.

perhaps you need reminding of what you actually quoted, so stop being silly and trying to make it look better. it was in the quote you quoted and ignored it.
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I didn't have to go searching, i just remembered your argument from earlier, and are you saying things you said a few hours ago are not in context to your views now? Anyway I'm agreeing with you about the self radicalisation, just not on which which was the bigger motivator, as that is unknown at this time

Anyway, I still don't see how this explains your accusation that Evangelion was ignoring all other reasons we he obviously wasn't.
 
and you still don't realise how stupid it is ignoring what you actually quoted and going and finding something from earlier. rather that what's in front of you in the quote.

as I Said the agenda of the post is clear.
 
I really haven't followed it a lot, just popped my head in to see what the latest news was.

Is it not entirely possible, if not reasonable to assume that him visiting the club multiple times would be to well, find out when it's busy, scout the place out, work out which doors to lock, how he might get in quietly, etc. Maybe he also was supposed to do this and he went there to try and persuade himself they were bad people or drank because he kinda didn't want to do it. Whenever anyone hit on him he would immediately start talking about his wife and kid in a defensive way which a lot of straight people might do when approached in a gay bar.

There are quite a few reasons for a guy to go to that club multiple times if he's planning on a freaking massacre there other than, because he's gay.

But I honestly don't care, there isn't a justifiable reason for him to do it, self hate, who cares, terrorism, who cares, bad dude shouldn't have done what he did. No reason or excuse will lessen what he did. I won't suddenly understand his actions if he was secretly gay. Just thought I'd point out him being there is poor reasoning for him maybe being gay.
 
You don't just get "radicalised" online.

The sooner the western world stop preaching that such a mantra exists the sooner we address the route issue.
 
As an aside,

I wonder what would have happened(To the Gun dealer) had the Gun dealer he bought his guns from refused to serve him on the grounds that he was a bit brown?
 
cheesyboy said:
That's a ****ing stupid line of thinking now, isn't it.
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The point I am getting at is that the Gun shop owner is coming under the media spotlight for selling Mateen the Guns that he used to carry out the massacre.

The Gun shop owner is saying that he followed all the relevant FBI etc rules.

But really, what else could he have done?

Had he refused to sell the guns because he didn't like Mateens face then he would have, no doubt, come under criticism for that (and might even have ended up, ironically, with the ACLU on his case)

:confused:
 
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