Wheel Chair vs Pushchairs

"I do not, however, believe that the fact that some passengers will - albeit rarely - act selfishly and irresponsibly is a sufficient reason for imposing on bus companies a legal responsibility for a situation which is not of their making and which they are not in a position to prevent."

I struggle to disagree with this quote, and in that case think I agree with the judge on the appeal. A possible solution could be to have a more flexible seating arrangement on the bus to allow for both disabled and pushchair users, but this will take time to filter through.
 
robbiemc said:
What a lovely, thoughtful comment.
Maybe, just maybe, being disabled and in a wheelchair is actually pretty tough. With the addition of pain, discomfort and inability to get into shops or access transport easily I'm not surprised some are short-tempered.
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Just saying that not all wheel chair users are nice people
Perhaps he was very rude to the lady, if it was me and he was rude i would have for him no as well.
 
JBod said:
What do you propose, asking the woman to leave the bus in order for a disabled person to get on - in the case of my wife then missing a NHS appointment (with all the pain that entails)? Or waking a sleeping baby who will then scream for the next 20minutes and ruin that families day due to the child not getting a nap? If it is a mum alone with a baby have you ever actually tried to wake a sleeping baby while simultaniously collapsing a pram/buggy? Babies don't stand you know...
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maybe they don't but I'm sure she can manage to sit down with a baby on her lap... at least better than a wheelchair user can
 
This judgement is a bit unfortunate... the driver really ought to be able to stop the bus and tell the chav mother to move the buggy else he won't be driving anywhere - peer pressure from the rest of the bus would then likely kick in

the problem is that you can't rely on people being courteous or lifting a finger to help out a disabled person - the sort of mother's who have to use buses the most frequently come from the socioeconomic class that is generally a bit lazier and more prone to kicking off when upset or confused or just having a big rant after being given a request be someone with any hint of authority such as the bus driver on his own bus
 
Trifid said:
"I do not, however, believe that the fact that some passengers will - albeit rarely - act selfishly and irresponsibly is a sufficient reason for imposing on bus companies a legal responsibility for a situation which is not of their making and which they are not in a position to prevent."

I struggle to disagree with this quote, and in that case think I agree with the judge on the appeal. A possible solution could be to have a more flexible seating arrangement on the bus to allow for both disabled and pushchair users, but this will take time to filter through.
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they are in a position to prevent it though - ever seen a London bus driver on a bad day when some 'urban youth' get on without paying - the driver just sits there and announces to the bus that he'll wait there all day unless the scroats get off the bus

they can do that over a few quid lost revenue but they don't want to bother with enforcing disabled spaces
 
So this gets heard at the supreme court later on, and I found it interesting reading through some obviously non parent posts and some obviously parent posts.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36534907

grumpysculler said:
My view is that being in a wheelchair you should get priority over the space if nobody else needs it. If someone can reasonably move, then they should and deserve to get kicked off if they are being an arse. If they can't reasonably move, then there is no space. Forcing somebody else off the bus is selfish and you should do what anyone else does when there is no space and wait for the next one.
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Absolutely right.

dowie said:
This judgement is a bit unfortunate... the driver really ought to be able to stop the bus and tell the chav mother to move the buggy else he won't be driving anywhere - peer pressure from the rest of the bus would then likely kick in

the problem is that you can't rely on people being courteous or lifting a finger to help out a disabled person - the sort of mother's who have to use buses the most frequently come from the socioeconomic class that is generally a bit lazier and more prone to kicking off when upset or confused or just having a big rant after being given a request be someone with any hint of authority such as the bus driver on his own bus
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This though? Wow.
 
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It's hard to imagine it not being possible to make room for the wheelchair. Perhaps the disabled man, and\or the driver did a poor job of convincing the mother? Perhaps she was just an arse. I can have some compassion. Had a crap day, kid is kicking off, shopping in the pram. Who can be bothered to fold it up and move, particularly if the disabled man was unpleasant in his manner?!?

I don't think a strict rule on priority is a good idea. Where does it end. Elderly grandmother with a pushchair, vs. young mother. Dad vs Mum. Let's not get into this, and trust that 99% of the time, the good will of people will prevail.
 
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platypus said:
So this gets heard at the supreme court later on, and I found it interesting reading through some obviously non parent posts and some obviously parent posts.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36534907



Absolutely right.



This though? Wow.
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Gyver it's kind of ridiculous the prams/buggys that Mums and Dads are rocking in these days. They might look good but they are often huge and really difficult to travel with (especially on buses/trains) I bet you have seen some of them trying to navigate through shops when the whole pram takes up literally the whole aisle.

My mum was a childminder for years and she used a very simple foldup buggy. It was easy to quickly fold away when travelling. That's what these parents need instead of the mamas & papas £1000 elite edition pram.
 
ColdAsIce said:
My mum was a childminder for years and she used a very simple foldup buggy. It was easy to quickly fold away when travelling. That's what these parents need instead of the mamas & papas £1000 elite edition pram.
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In the real world however, those little fold-up prams are useless in many situations. Newborns etc etc. Not to mention they're totally crap and annoying to push about.
 
ColdAsIce said:
Gyver it's kind of ridiculous the prams/buggys that Mums and Dads are rocking in these days. They might look good but they are often huge and really difficult to travel with (especially on buses/trains) I bet you have seen some of them trying to navigate through shops when the whole pram takes up literally the whole aisle.

My mum was a childminder for years and she used a very simple foldup buggy. It was easy to quickly fold away when travelling. That's what these parents need instead of the mamas & papas £1000 elite edition pram.
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Well as the owner of a £1.2k special edition pram (no it was not my choice), I can tell you that I agree they are ridiculous. Unfortunately it does not fold down anywhere near enough to be moved out of the way on a bus. Fortunately, we don't get the bus :p.

The trouble with prams is that in most cases they really don't fold down well, part of their design is to maintain structural integrity because in prams the baby is lying down. Some push chairs do fold down much more compactly, and as such there shouldn't always be a problem doing so. Taking the article at face value that it was a pushchair - and lets assume it could fold down enough - the mother would have done so in ideal circumstances, but there are countless reasons as to why its not practical to do so with a child.

I'm afraid I'm in the first-come, first-served camp on this. Would the same complaint have been made if an elderly person had taken the space up? On the buses in Cambridge for example using the wheelchair spot means folding up four seats to accommodate it.
 
Skiddley said:
In the real world however, those little fold-up prams are useless in many situations. Newborns etc etc. Not to mention they're totally crap and annoying to push about.
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Well it worked fine for my Mum who used a simple pram when me and my Brother were children and then went onto to be a childminder for like 15 years, using exactly the same type of pram 5 days a week.

This was also before buses were designed for prams/wheelchair users and she still managed without much issue because she was organised and didn't overload herself with some huge awful pram and carrying a bulk of unnecessary stuff.
 
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platypus said:
Well as the owner of a £1.2k special edition pram (no it was not my choice), I can tell you that I agree they are ridiculous. Unfortunately it does not fold down anywhere near enough to be moved out of the way on a bus. Fortunately, we don't get the bus :p.

The trouble with prams is that in most cases they really don't fold down well, part of their design is to maintain structural integrity because in prams the baby is lying down. Some push chairs do fold down much more compactly, and as such there shouldn't always be a problem doing so. Taking the article at face value that it was a pushchair - and lets assume it could fold down enough - the mother would have done so in ideal circumstances, but there are countless reasons as to why its not practical to do so with a child.

I'm afraid I'm in the first-come, first-served camp on this. Would the same complaint have been made if an elderly person had taken the space up? On the buses in Cambridge for example using the wheelchair spot means folding up four seats to accommodate it.
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Nooooo Gyver!!!!!
 
dowie said:
they are in a position to prevent it though - ever seen a London bus driver on a bad day when some 'urban youth' get on without paying - the driver just sits there and announces to the bus that he'll wait there all day unless the scroats get off the bus

they can do that over a few quid lost revenue but they don't want to bother with enforcing disabled spaces
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Slow reply here. The difference would be, the urban youth is not a customer and the person with a push chair is. I can still see the bus companies dilemma here and it also clear there isn't complete consensus in the courts either, which the supreme court will provide. I don't think I personally could side with the push chair user and I have full sympathies for the bus driver and wheel chair user for being put in the current situation.
 
ColdAsIce said:
Well it worked fine for my Mum who used a simple pram when me and my Brother were children and then went onto to be a childminder for like 15 years, using exactly the same type of pram 5 days a week.

This was also before buses were designed for prams/wheelchair users and she still managed without much issue because she was organised and didn't overload herself with some huge awful pram and carrying a bulk of unnecessary stuff.
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This my man, is what we call progress.

How's that Black & White TV that was fine for your Mum working out?
 
Skiddley said:
This my man, is what we call progress.

How's that Black & White TV that was fine for your Mum working out?
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I wouldn't call it progress when you can't do something that was manageable 30 years ago because of (basically) fashion.

As someone who has to deal with a wheelchair on a regular basis my vote is with the wheelchair users.

Mind you half the people with big prams/buggies scare the hell out of me anyway when I'm driving around town, they don't have a clue about how far in front of them they stick out so it's a regular thing to see them overhanging the edge of the kerb at crossings (something I don't remember my mum ever having a problem with when she was using buggies and pushchairs that seemed about half the size).
 
Unless the mother has to actually get off to make space, then this seems obvious to me that the wheelchair user has priority in this case. Pushchairs can be folded up and babies carried. It's unlikely room couldn't be made for the wheelchair user.
 
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