Brexit thread - what happens next

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Mauller said:
I just want to bring up the point of the Common Agriculture Policy, if you think it helps small farmers in rural areas, it doesn't. Most of the money goes to wealthy land owners and corporate run mega farms.

The people you think of as farmers get a pittance to nothing at all from the CAP budget. I know a farmer with a fair bit of land and while he has a good amount of money to live, him and other farmers are shafted more by retailers and milk processing companies. And they see little from the CAP budget as it is divided up by land ownership.
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How is being shafted by the Supermarkets down to the EU?

CAP is what keeps most small farmers afloat. Yes big massive farmers get a fortune but thats how it goes. My dad is a small farmer with 47 acres. If he didnt get the £8k a year from GAP he wouldnt be able to afford to eat.
 
Mauller said:
Did you even read what I put? The people who you think of as your local Joe farmer see a pittance to nothing from the CAP budget already.
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Yes, and I disagree with your anecdotal evidence. I could find my local farmers on here: http://cap-payments.defra.gov.uk/Search.aspx; and they got more than a pittance. The supermarket pressure on them is fierce, but that's not going away nor is it a fault of the CAP or the EU. Neither the government nor lead Leave figures offered to ring-fence any funding for farming... or anything really. Since that 350m figure was just a pipe dream of a slogan, or paper money if you will.
 
dowie said:
Please highlight where I've contradicted myself? You're again trying to use the same straw man argument... re: a sinking ship.
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As I highlighted in the last post in reply to my question

'Why would countries want to join if it was a sinking ship?

You replied

poor countries are, .....

The inference being poor countries are joining a sinking ship.
I am afraid you have made an error and you are too arrogant to put your hand up and admit it.
 
Greebo said:
So thats the full blown, no access to the EU market, WTO tariff model then?
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I think that would make them happy, yes.

The possibility of another 10 years of recession/stagnation and high unemployment garnered nothing more than a shrug and a "well, if that's what we have to do then let's get on with it". Because, I guess, that misery is worth it to stick it to johnny foreigner.

I'm sure there are "lots" of Brexit voters who had better reasons for their choice. But the nasty *******s in my family are not among them.
 
cheesyboy said:
I think that would make them happy, yes.

The possibility of another 10 years of recession/stagnation and high unemployment garnered nothing more than a shrug and a "well, if that's what we have to do then let's get on with it". Because, I guess, that misery is worth it to stick it to johnny foreigner.

I'm sure there are "lots" of Brexit voters who had better reasons for their choice. But the nasty *******s in my family are not among them.
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Especially if you don't have to pay, and that's the rub of it. Frankly, in two decades a significant chunk will be in the ground; but hey, at least they showed them youngsters how it's done -- true grit, yo. Self-inflicted, but gritty!
 
Greebo said:
How is being shafted by the Supermarkets down to the EU?

CAP is what keeps most small farmers afloat. Yes big massive farmers get a fortune but thats how it goes. My dad is a small farmer with 47 acres. If he didnt get the £8k a year from GAP he wouldnt be able to afford to eat.
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Which is a point I am trying to make. the CAP pretty much helps the wealthy more. Even people who own a lot of land and farm little to none of it. If it was managed properly it would only go to the smallest farms that need It.
 
RE: Farage

Whilst I don't agree with him, I do respect him. He truly believes in this and has full unwavering conviction on it.
 
cheesyboy said:
I think that would make them happy, yes.

The possibility of another 10 years of recession/stagnation and high unemployment garnered nothing more than a shrug and a "well, if that's what we have to do then let's get on with it". Because, I guess, that misery is worth it to stick it to johnny foreigner.

I'm sure there are "lots" of Brexit voters who had better reasons for their choice. But the nasty *******s in my family are not among them.
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Perhaps they lived through hard times themselves in the past and they accept that you have to take the rough with the smooth.
 
Greebo said:
Exactly. The leave campaign were a group of individuals all got together under one banner which was leave. Some want full out which means not even in the EU trade agreement, others want EEA membership and full free movement of people, just not the rest of the baggage which comes with the EU and some in between.

Problem is even within the leave campaigners, both of the two extremes of leaving or pretty much almost totally staying in arent compatible with each other.

Thats why there never was a plan as you couldn't reach an agreement as to what leave actually means.

And again going forward now, somebody has the decision to make as to what leave means.

Is it pull out of everything and just go WTO or is it join the EEA and a have full access to the EU market and full freedom of movement?

WHich is why the suggestion of a second referendum isnt so daft. Not one on whether you want to vote stay or leave but one listing the different options of which leave we want.

Let the people decide. I suspect it would end up being EEA trade + free movement which will annoy the hard core full leave minority but thats democracy for you.
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and likewise on the remain side there were a host of reasons for voting remain.... some adamant that the EU is the way forwards, others over things like freedom to move to and work in Europe, some over the stability/fear aspect even though they don't like the EU much they think leaving is too risky, some who didn't know either way but again the status quo was the safer option

I'd say for a big chunk of them if something along the lines of an EFTA deal were agreed(or looked likely) and lead to stability then you'd make a bunch of people on both sides reasonably happy and only the more extreme views from either(hardcore EU fans or massively anti immigration fans) particularly upset still. Young people still able to work/travel in Europe, UK fishermen now having exclusive access to British economic zone etc..
 
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Farage looking rather pleased with himself in Brussels, roundly booed when he stood up. He doesn't care. :p

"I know most of you have never done a proper job in your lives."

Ha!
 
joeyjojo said:
Er, sorry to disappoint but Liechtenstein is Schengen. :rolleyes:
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Yes, but it is also allowed to have a quota on people moving to the country (but not working in the country). Over half of workers in Liechtenstein commute in from outside the country.

This is allowed because Liechtenstein is tiny. The UK is not tiny and, apart from along the Northern Irish border, it is not practical for people to work in the UK but live outside it for most jobs.

Caged said:
Farage is a national embarrassment
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Yup. Utter disgrace.
 
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