NHS Employees - Question

No1newts

No1newts

No1newts

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Hello, are there any employees in here who could answer a quick question .

My wife's grandma was in hospital, she had a stroke unfortunately but whilst having the Stroke she pitched sideways off the bed and hit the floor. During it all 2 nurses just stood and watched and ignored her. 2 other patients has to pick her up (2 elderly women) when the nurses were challenged they said "we aren't allowed to help we might hurt our backs." :confused:

Any NHS employees is this the sort of advice you get? I find the situation completely unreal!

It's all sorted now, just a bit baffled by the nurses actions.
 
If someone has a fall they would usually use a hover jack rather than lifting them just in case they cause more injury, as they said in this case they hurt their backs, H&S gone mad again. Sometimes common sense goes out of the window. I have never seen a patient being picked up if they have had a fall, they always use the jack.

http://www.hovermatt.com/hoverjack.html
 
Without being there it's hard to say - however I severely doubt that two nurses who dedicate their daily lives to saving patients just "stood and watched her fall off the bed and left her there"

yes - health and safety is always a big issue in NHS etc - but do you honestly believe they stood by and let her have a stroke and fall off a bed........

my wife has dedicated 23 years of her life to NHS and "moving and handling" patients is a big issue - but without knowing all the details it's very difficult to believe they just stood around and left her having a stroke/lying on the floor
 
Crazy, the fact they then let 2 elderly women (no idea of their age) then pick her up whilst they still did nothing is crazy.

I'm all for H&S but at times a little common sense needs deployed.
 
booyaka said:
Without being there it's hard to say - however I severely doubt that two nurses who dedicate their daily lives to saving patients just "stood and watched her fall off the bed and left her there"

yes - health and safety is always a big issue in NHS etc - but do you honestly believe they stood by and let her have a stroke and fall off a bed........
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Her grandma didn't actually raise the issue (she a lovely old lady) it was one of the other patients who informed her son. I don't see a reason why they would fabricate such a story, they have nothing to gain.
 
Had a saga about five years ago with our council other something similar. Our recycling bin has a separate insert to take glass. The recycling bin is lower volume than the normal one so fills up later. We'd been putting the glass section on the ground next to it when it came to collection day and had noticed on a number of occasions that they hadn't taken it. Decided to call the council and was told 'if it means bending over they're not allowed to do it for health and safety reasons'. Now the problem with that is it's absolute bull crap. I've got enough hse knowledge to know that. My father however is a highly qualified hse consultant. So he decided to play a game with the council. It started with them refusing to collect our rubbish at all. Letters went back and forth until somehow he managed to arrange a face to face meeting with the head of hse at which point he presented certs of his qualifications and showed himself to be qualified far more highly than this bloke and pointed out there was no recognised standard which stated the council's policy and that it was completely made up.
We got a written apology and assurances that collection would resume immediately.
It did. Some guys turned up that afternoon to empty all of the bins.
 
No1newts said:
Her grandma didn't actually raise the issue (she a lovely old lady) it was one of the other patients who informed her son. I don't see a reason why they would fabricate such a story, they have nothing to gain.
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Thing is it's third hand information, there may have been a reason to "leave her there" such as wanting a doctor, consultant etc to check her before moving her. It depends on their reaction, did they move to check her? Moving someone who's frail after a fall immediately isn't the best course of action, they may have called for help.

There are a lot of things which could have been going on that patients, relatives etc don't realise. I'm not saying don't point the finger of blame, make a complaint, have it investigated (request a neutral party - someone outwith that department carry out the investigation) etc.

Not being there doesn't mean you can't complain, you'll likely need to provide the names of those who did witness it though.
 
booyaka said:
Without being there it's hard to say - however I severely doubt that two nurses who dedicate their daily lives to gossiping at the nurses station just "stood and watched her fall off the bed and left her there"
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Fixed

but do you honestly believe they stood by and let her have a stroke and fall off a bed........
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I do, I seen many cases of neglect by nurses as a patient and a visitor. One of the worst was when an old woman in the next bed that had a stroke soiled herself, the whole ward stank, called a nurse about it, half hour later one turns up from the gossip station and denies the old woman has soiled herself, even though by this time she had it all over her hands and under her nails. Took an hour more until she was finally cleaned by the same nurse.
 
Not to make this thread too medical but there are valid reasons why you wouldn't rush to lift someone after a fall. There's a risk of having an injury as a result of the fall that could be exacerbated by improperly handling or movement such as a spinal injury. I work on a medical elderly care ward and after a patient has fall you have to assess the situation and examine them before moving them. To be honest the most worrying thing is why the nurses allowed other patients to move them. I agree with the comment above that this is third hand information so usual caveats apply. All inpatient falls should have a clinical incident form filled out. Could ask thr ward sister to explain what actually happened.
 
Halfmad said:
Thing is it's third hand information, there may have been a reason to "leave her there" such as wanting a doctor, consultant etc to check her before moving her. It depends on their reaction, did they move to check her? Moving someone who's frail after a fall immediately isn't the best course of action, they may have called for help.

There are a lot of things which could have been going on that patients, relatives etc don't realise. I'm not saying don't point the finger of blame, make a complaint, have it investigated (request a neutral party - someone outwith that department carry out the investigation) etc.

Not being there doesn't mean you can't complain, you'll likely need to provide the names of those who did witness it though.
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Yeah I know third hand etc. I missed part of the narrative, apparently no doctor ever came to check her, her incident was just ignored and it was found out a day later when resdmitted for something else she had a stroke.

The thread has nothing to do with wanting to complain/should I complain. It's in the hands of her son to deal with and very little to do with me. The point is more to find out "if" it is true, is there some guidance given to staff?

I work in a highly intensive EHS environment and if you have a situation where a task can't be completed due to a hazard presenting itself you have to some form of system in place to complete the task in another manner. Just ignoring it rarely works :p plus when there is an injury I had yet to see anyone go "sorry mate, tough luck, can't help"
 
During my NHS training I was told to never move a patient (although I was only in for admin, it was the same basic training for everyone) and wait for a jack. Not only could the nurse do damage to herself, it could have also resulted in injury to the patient.

Why do you think if there is suspected back/neck damage at a road collision, the advice is to stay put and wait for a stretcher.
 
Ask the son to go through your hospital's PALS (patient advice and liason service) to request an explanation.

I can never personally imagine this happening (not questioning the history) having worked in several different hospitals.
 
No1newts said:
when the nurses were challenged they said "we aren't allowed to help we might hurt our backs." :confused:

Any NHS employees is this the sort of advice you get? I find the situation completely unreal!
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Complete garbage if that is what the Nurses said.
Every member of staff is supposed to go through a yearly manual handling course and I sometimes help out in the sessions.
The Nurses have a Duty of Care to help the patient even if it means getting other members of staff to help or some kind of lift and they should have advised the other women from helping.

However, there is also an element of truth in what could happen.
My day job is dealing with Clinical Negligence, Inquests, lots of other stuff and Personal Injury Claims by staff members and virtually every claim is associated with patient handling while the rest are falling over a piece of paper, slipping on water or tripping on the path.
 
There may well be some context to it all (probably is) as I say I'm not involved at all just got told by the mother in law and wanted to know an "insiders" point of view.

Seems there is some guidance around lifting people to protect yourself which I find strange when you are in a healthcare industry, fully understand the "makes things worse" stuff though.

Cheers
 
A lot of may family and friends are nurses and my mum is a CQC inspector.

Simply put, that should simply not happen by a fully qualified nurse. Heathcare assistants though (who usually come from agencies with their own rules etc) might have that reaction. Did they not seek assistance from other staff?
 
My nan was rushed into hospital one night in agonising pain. She had one leg removed and another they tried to save, the result of blood clots.

A month later, the same pain in her saved leg. We called an ambulance and 2 6ft+ strapping paramedics turned up. She was in bed, there was a crane, she had one leg. They refused to move her saying they weren't allowed to.

I am 5ft 10, the crane was being a pain so I had to pick her up out of the bed while she was screaming and physically put her in a wheelchair.

I asked them what they'd do in an emergency when the patient was unable to move and there was no one else there, they didn't answer.
 
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