MTF Transpeople To Compete With Women At Rio Olympics

Destination · 3 Jul 2016 at 14:32

JanM said:
I don't think this is remotely similar to be honest.

I assume he is being flippant, but it wasn't overly clear.

Dis86 · 3 Jul 2016 at 14:39

JanM said:
I don't think this is remotely similar to be honest.

Then explain how not.

If men and women are equally good at something then of course they should be compensated equally.

If men and women are equal then they should be able to compete against each other freely. As no one side would have a defined advantage.

As we're seeing here men and women and not equally good at a large number of sports. Men have huge genetic advantages. Something that is now being shown in various sports where we have trans/cross gender competition. Women just cannot compete.

Vulcan · 3 Jul 2016 at 14:43

Hikari Kisugi said:
Man cuts off his balls, gets to compete against the women.

They don't have to have any surgery, just go on hormone replacement.

Destination · 3 Jul 2016 at 14:43

Woman can compete against women, and men compete against men.
Each gets remunerated for their work, and whatever associated advertising that can be brought.
As was clearly seen in tennis, at one stage the women were as much of a draw as the men for the sponsors and advertising and fans, so the prize money was levelled.
In some sports the women are less of a draw, so the money is significantly less.

How does this remotely compare to men having their testicle removed and then proceed to crush women in sports where they have advantage?

Explain your reasoning behind the actual OP?

Greebo · 3 Jul 2016 at 14:45

dowie said:
kind of defeats the point of separating genders... the whole point in the first place was the physical advantage and a biological man who is now legally a woman still has that physical advantage...

But women are equal? It's like Wimbledon, women should compete with the men. Then it's the same pay etc

McBain · 3 Jul 2016 at 14:49

What about boxing then? So you've basically got blokes beating up women.

Ridiculous.

Greebo · 3 Jul 2016 at 14:53

McBain said:
What about boxing then? So you've basically got blokes beating up women.

Ridiculous.

So can we all agree now that women and men aren't equal?
Good.

In that case no way should this be allowed.

Dis86 · 3 Jul 2016 at 14:56

Hikari Kisugi said:
Woman can compete against women, and men compete against men.
Each gets remunerated for their work, and whatever associated advertising that can be brought.
As was clearly seen in tennis, at one stage the women were as much of a draw as the men for the sponsors and advertising and fans, so the prize money was levelled.
In some sports the women are less of a draw, so the money is significantly less.

How does this remotely compare to men having their testicle removed and then proceed to crush women in sports where they have advantage?

Explain your reasoning behind the actual OP?

http://time.com/money/4265912/equal-pay-tennis-djokovic-williams/

Ignoring the angle of the article, we'll discuss the facts, only in 2 years have womens tennis matches had higher viewings then mens at majors.

Pay was leveled long before ratings were on parity.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/35863208

Another source to back that up.

Destination · 3 Jul 2016 at 15:10

Yeah fine, now tell us why you think men on hormones or missing balls should be competeing in the olympics against women then, which is the subject of the op.

Dis86 · 3 Jul 2016 at 15:14

Hikari Kisugi said:
Yeah fine, now tell us why you think men on hormones or missing balls should be competeing in the olympics against women then, which is the subject of the op.

Because those men view themselves as women. Does anyone have the right to tell them that they're not? Isn't that what trans acceptance has been campaigning for?

Women have been campaigning for equal rights. They have it - even though as several of us have pointed out in this thread they aren't always equal.

Now they're complaining when someone else wants to be seen as equal. That's utter hypocrisy.

Destination · 3 Jul 2016 at 15:25

Total twaddle.

V F · 3 Jul 2016 at 15:27

Hikari Kisugi said:
Are you really confused?
Man cuts off his balls, gets to compete against the women.
Its absurd, it isn't confusing, if he had his balls cut off prepubery, it might be easier to compare, otherwise it makes no sense.
Getting paid the same shouldn't be an issue, if in a sport you bring in as much advertising and fans, then you should be paid the same, if you don't then you won't be, look at women's soccer as a counterpoint.

I'm dreading what society will be like in 5 - 10 years considering how much it has accelerated so weirdly today.

Dis86 · 3 Jul 2016 at 15:27

Hikari Kisugi said:
Total twaddle.

Lol excellent comeback. I take it that's because you don't have a genuine response?

Destination · 3 Jul 2016 at 15:30

Dis86 said:
Lol excellent comeback. I take it that's because you don't have a genuine response?

It is twaddle to think that omen have been campaigning for equal rights is equivalent to this.
Most sports are split into male and female.
No matter how a transgender person sees themselves, they are not female from a sporting pov.
If they want equality, then a subgender of transgender would be the equality, to compete on a level field against similar people.

Roar87 · 3 Jul 2016 at 15:36

Glaucus said:
I just want to watch an open drugs Olympics. anything goes.

We already do that, Olympics have loads of drug cheats in

Steampunk · 3 Jul 2016 at 15:38

You may want to treat men and woman equally, socially, financially, etc, but the reality is that men and woman can still be different, even though they can be equal. One of those different factors is sheer physical strength and stamina. Put a male and female boxer in the ring, and no one would expect the woman to win. A surgically altered male is still genetically a male, with all the physical advantages.

I expect that gender segregation in sports will have to go by genetic make up, rather than whatever the paperwork or surgical/chemical alterations imply.

Roar87 · 3 Jul 2016 at 15:38

Dis86 said:
Because those men view themselves as women. Does anyone have the right to tell them that they're not? Isn't that what trans acceptance has been campaigning for?

Women have been campaigning for equal rights. They have it - even though as several of us have pointed out in this thread they aren't always equal.

Now they're complaining when someone else wants to be seen as equal. That's utter hypocrisy.

Women will never win against MTF Transgenders, do you not view that as a problem?

Glaucus · 3 Jul 2016 at 15:39

Roar87 said:
We already do that, Olympics have loads of drug cheats in

it is in no way open though is it.

Dis86 · 3 Jul 2016 at 15:57

Hikari Kisugi said:
It is twaddle to think that omen have been campaigning for equal rights is equivalent to this.
Most sports are split into male and female.
No matter how a transgender person sees themselves, they are not female from a sporting pov.
If they want equality, then a subgender of transgender would be the equality, to compete on a level field against similar people.

How's that twaddle? Are you saying that transgender identifying people don't deserve to be considered equally in the same manner that women do?

They clearly are female from a sporting point of view - hence the whole point of this thread :confused:

Do you know just how many subgenders there are? Even conservative experts on the topic suggest there are at least six!

Roar87 said:
Women will never win against MTF Transgenders, do you not view that as a problem?

Definitely. Women clearly need to up their game

Or people need to realise that not everyone is equal...

Destination · 3 Jul 2016 at 16:01

Some sports have weight divisons, and other various classisifactions, add one for transgendered.
They might identify as women, they are not genetically, there are genetic mismatches, but that is different from bruce cutting off his balls and taking hormones and becoming Caitlin.