NHS Employees - Question

Seems there is some guidance around lifting people to protect yourself which I find strange when you are in a healthcare industry,

Absolutely there is guidance because you have to think about your own safety first.
Imagine trying to help a bariatric patient on your own?
However they should not have ignored the incident because a fall like that can lead to massive complications and death (I know because I see it).

The incident should also have been logged according to NHS policies.
We have a system called DATIX for logging incidents, complaints, PALS & inquests.
 
Sounds right,If those are the guidelines placed on the nurses and they break them by helping lift the patient they could get the sack..not worth it,Cant blame them.
 
You'd be surprised how many nurses required back treatment due to inappropirate lifting. As said earlier a hoist must be used and there might be cases where the patient suffered injuries so they'd have to be checked by a doctor before the hoist is brought in. Maybe the two nurses were waiting for a doctor or weren't trained to use the hoist.
 
Sounds right,If those are the guidelines placed on the nurses and they break them by helping lift the patient they could get the sack..not worth it,Cant blame them.

They won't get the sack but when a Personal Injury claim comes in we ask for the training logs and if they signed a form then ................... that still doesn't stop them from making a claim :D
 
Absolutely there is guidance because you have to think about your own safety first.
Imagine trying to help a bariatric patient on your own?
However they should not have ignored the incident because a fall like that can lead to massive complications and death (I know because I see it).

The incident should also have been logged according to NHS policies.
We have a system called DATIX for logging incidents, complaints, PALS & inquests.

Perhaps I'm just biased by my own views but if I saw someone in (potentially) serious bother/life threatening situation the last thing I would be thinking about is my back I would be helping them. I wouldn't be thinking about then claiming against someone if I did hurt myself, I would think it a price worth paying.

Sign of the legislative world we are in I guess where people who work are thinking how they can claim and employers thinking about how to shaft them (well done saving that woman's life, but you signed this manual handling sheet so you are out o your behind)

I just find it all strange.
 
Perhaps I'm just biased by my own views but if I saw someone in (potentially) serious bother/life threatening situation the last thing I would be thinking about is my back I would be helping them. I wouldn't be thinking about then claiming against someone if I did hurt myself, I would think it a price worth paying.

Sign of the legislative world we are in I guess where people who work are thinking how they can claim and employers thinking about how to shaft them (well done saving that woman's life, but you signed this manual handling sheet so you are out o your behind)

I just find it all strange.

However also remember that some of these staff members who did get stuck in have now had their lives ruined and are unemployable.
 
However also remember that some of these staff members who did get stuck in have now had their lives ruined and are unemployable.

I know it could happen, but at the time I still wouldn't think "hmm I might...."

I once pulled a woman out a flipped car on the a19 about 6 years back (activate hero mode :p) I didn't stop to think "but I could...." If I did she could well be dead now as a couple of minutes after I rescued her the car rolled down a bank. Just think if my wife's grandma pitching over had passed away or someone else's loved one, thankfully it didn't happen, imagine the uproar.

Appreciate my view is probably not the prevalent one these days, just a little sad at the change I guess.
 
Appreciate my view is probably not the prevalent one these days, just a little sad at the change I guess.

I'm with you, I've got stuck in to 2 RTAs with one of them having a petrol leak and four injured people.
I'm also the type who has gone to help collapsed people when they were just drunk :D
 
If someone has a fall they would usually use a hover jack rather than lifting them just in case they cause more injury, as they said in this case they hurt their backs, H&S gone mad again. Sometimes common sense goes out of the window. I have never seen a patient being picked up if they have had a fall, they always use the jack.

http://www.hovermatt.com/hoverjack.html

What a load of tosh they use a hoist or stretcher
 
What a load of tosh they use a hoist or stretcher

I know we've got 4 of those Hover Jacks for our huge hospital because they keep getting misplaced and H&S (who sit next to me) have to keep hunting them down. I do know one is permanently kept on the elderly wards and one near Theatres.
 
Where I work (NHS), we have various courses as part of the induction. Manual handling (for every day stuff like boxes), manual handling low risk (for lifting patients 18-65) and manual handling high risk (for lifting patients 65+). I would be a bit surprised if these courses weren't offered to the nurses in the OP.
 
Third party information :rolleyes:

Ever tried lifting someone from the floor? This can cause some serious damage to your back and not to mention they have guidelines to follow.

People need to give the NHS staff a break in all honestly, I work in a hospital and they put up with a lot of abuse from patients and especially patients family because they think they know better.

Unless fully trained I would NOT move a patient from the floor, It makes sense as you can seriously injure the patient moving them and then they will make a complaint about staff moving the patient when they are not trained to do so.

The NHS has staff fully trained and able to do this, Your average nurse will not be able to lift someone easily.
 
Where I work (NHS), we have various courses as part of the induction. Manual handling (for every day stuff like boxes), manual handling low risk (for lifting patients 18-65) and manual handling high risk (for lifting patients 65+). I would be a bit surprised if these courses weren't offered to the nurses in the OP.

Your Health & Safety & Manual Handling are now headed by the people who sit next to me if you're at County.
 
What a load of tosh they use a hoist or stretcher

Right, today I asked the right people the right questions and at our Trust a stretcher or a hoist would never be used in the OPs story - basically imagine the problems you'd cause if a patient had a neck of femur (sp!).
Hover Jacks and Hover Mattresses have been so successful that our Trust have ordered lots more.
I had that from the horses mouth.
 
Right, today I asked the right people the right questions and at our Trust a stretcher or a hoist would never be used in the OPs story - basically imagine the problems you'd cause if a patient had a neck of femur (sp!).
Hover Jacks and Hover Mattresses have been so successful that our Trust have ordered lots more.
I had that from the horses mouth.

Can't help but think you're a sales rep lol.
 
I very much doubt the attitude was that they were not allowed to lift the patient and that they were as disinterested as the story suggests. Given that conditions such as osteoporosis are so common in the elderly I think it far more likely they needed to wait for a qualified clinician to assess the patient for new injuries before getting them up. Bear in mind that the fall has happened now, they are not going to get more injured remaining on the floor for a short time, whereas the potential for exacerbating a new injury by reflexively picking the patient up is high.

I know it isn't nice to see someone on the floor, but just snatching them back up, particularly if you haven't had the right training, gives a large chance to injure the person being lifted as well as the person lifting.

In my role I would use a scoop to lift the person. This is a curved board which splits down the middle and can be slid under the patient from each side with minimal movement.

ferno_scoop_65exl_stretcher_2016_zpsujflza2p.jpg


I use it daily and the staff in A&E are very familiar with it, however the last time I used it on a ward none of the staff had seen one before and I ended up with an audience who seemed in wonderment of this marvel of technology!
I haven't seen many people having to be lifted from the floor in hospital, but those that have were lifted manually without equipment.

In the home environment I lift manually when there is no injury, but if I feel the patient cannot be lifted safely I will request a Mangar Elk lifting cushion.
elk_zpslpafsezs.jpg

Unfortunately this requesting of the cushion from station can delay the patient being moved for up to an hour but results in a much more comfortable and safe lift.

A month later, the same pain in her saved leg. We called an ambulance and 2 6ft+ strapping paramedics turned up. She was in bed, there was a crane, she had one leg. They refused to move her saying they weren't allowed to.

I am 5ft 10, the crane was being a pain so I had to pick her up out of the bed while she was screaming and physically put her in a wheelchair.

I asked them what they'd do in an emergency when the patient was unable to move and there was no one else there, they didn't answer.

In that situation I am not allowed to use the crane/hoist as I've not been trained to do so. If a family member or carer is there that knows how to use it then I'd ask them to operate it for me. If I used it and fitted the sling wrong and injured the patient I would lose my registration and job so I never touch hoists.

In an emergency situation the patient would be likely be slid across to the chair/stretcher manually using either the scoop or lifted. There would be no discussion about the hoist and no shrugging or indecisiveness. Also I feel the need to point out that not all people who turn up in ambulances and are dressed in green are paramedics, nor will they necessarily be employed by the NHS.
 
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Without being there it's hard to say - however I severely doubt that two nurses who dedicate their daily lives to saving patients just "stood and watched her fall off the bed and left her there"

With the caveat that the wife is out, so I can't check with her....I'm pretty sure nurses are instructed to allow people to fall - they can steady them if they stumble, but once they are actually falling, they should just allow it to happen.

This is because the chance of injury to the patient from a fall is really quite low - it won't tend to be from that high, and as humans we are designed to fall fairly well - we bend and have limbs that we instinctively throw out. The chance of injury to both the nurse and patient from intervening is much higher.

Consider this - "2 nurses watch an old lady fall out of bed" may not sound great, but it sounds a damn sight better than "nurse dislocates old lady's shoulder and puts her own back out, stopping her patient falling out of bed".

As others have said, once a patient has fallen there is a process, requiring medical assessment and correct equipment - you'd be surprised (horrified?) how many wards/patients are often sharing specialised lifting equipment. A patient on the floor may look awful, but they are not going to injure themselves or others.

While it's nice that other patients rallied round, their decision to assist was emotional, not medical.

Nurse do many things that look horrific out of context. I've seen patients crying because a nurse forces them to get out of bed...except that process is actually part of their medical treatment; waking people up to give them drugs (timing is critical); withholding painkillers (dosage levels/contraindications) - unfortunately the process of making people better is not always pleasant to the outside, untrained observer.

If you have concerns, you absolutely should report it - just remove some of the emotion/speculation (who diagnosed the stroke?) and dial down to the facts, the whole process should have been documented.

Without being there it's hard to say - however I severely doubt that two nurses who dedicate their daily lives to gossiping at the nurses station just "stood and watched her fall off the bed and left her there"

You want to chat to some nurses about their typical range of duties and responsibilities compared to their relative pay before you make a stupid comment like that. For every bad story you've heard, I guarantee you their are hundreds of thousands of good ones that you don't hear about because it's part of the normal working day for a nurse.
 
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