Evidence my point perfectly.
Computer literacy is still a huge problem
- Thread starter mrochester
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Evidence my point perfectly.
Nope, but again you are simply supporting my point. What have you done all your working life, what, 10 years of it?
But you could say that about any job O_o
E.g. my cousin is an accountant, he says it's the easiest job in the world, yet because it involves money and rich people he makes buckets of cash. But the people who maintain the infrastructure which enables him to make all that cash probably get peanuts. But without it no one would get anything.
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I'd still argue, how come they didn't replace you straight away if people like yourself were that common even back then?
You did walk on water, you just didn't do it often enough in plain view.
I'd still argue, how come they didn't replace you straight away if people like yourself were that common even back then?
You did walk on water, you just didn't do it often enough in plain view.
Nah, I didn't. I've employed many of them over the years though...
I'd still argue, how come they didn't replace you straight away if people like yourself were that common even back then?
You did walk on water, you just didn't do it often enough in plain view.
They did when I left, within a week. My mate, lived 2 doors from me, I put him in place as my first recruit and he took over when I left. He was better than me at programming, but I was better at business. He still thinks what he does is special, it must be as he has done it for 31 years so must be good at it now, same company, same role. I've moved on a bit since then however.
You realise that centuries before computers there were accountants yes?
They did when I left, within a week. My mate, lived 2 doors from me, I put him in place as my first recruit and he took over when I left. He was better than me at programming, but I was better at business. He still thinks what he does is special, it must be as he has done it for 31 years so must be good at it now, same company, same role. I've moved on a bit since then however.
I see what you are saying now:I need to combine the power of IT specialist with sales and owning my company. Be better than Bill Gates. Gotcha.
But I wonder how far they would get in the modern world without one.
You need an accountant more, to my point.
I need to combine the power of IT specialist with sales and owning my company. Be better than Bill Gates. Gotcha.
I sense you have all the answers already, you have the meaning of life, know how business works, see it's all against you and just for the slimy guy with the Ford Probe who's a tiger, yes? You are 29, I argue you've never sat in a board room, made a decision about the direction of a business but hey, you can make a computer sing and the world needs that more than the next bloke who can also do that....or the scientist, doctor, airline pilot, account exec who all get paid vastly more but only because they are slimy and lick arses?
If I had a pound for each time I've seen this I'd have many pounds, just need a spreadsheet to work out how many but WordPerfect isn't adding it up right at the moment so I've moved to Coral Draw. Back in a minute, just on hold to Andrew in first line support, though not sure that's his real name as he sounds Indian.
My point was that IT people often (not always) have a completely misaligned view as to their real value to a business. All you have done is evidence that, to my point with your simplistic comment to my point.
Too add what happens when the computers fail at an air traffic control? They rely on the same people to land the planes with blocks of wood, not the IT people, who simply fix the tool of the more important person, you know, the one who stops the planes crashing into the server farm.
My point is one of value, not of capability but I am sure the person fixing the computer could land the planes and the person landing the planes could fix the computer, if told how to, or if they chose to. Just one doesn't have a misaligned view on their importance in my experience, the other often does.
I run design software but it does not make me a better engineer. I just do it a bit quicker or can run more whatif scenarios. If you cannot do it by hand, you should not use a machine.
AGAIN, you miss my point. I have not once said people were not needed, that is your point it seems, not mine. To add, as you keep adding.....business needs all sorts, all skills, all mixes, different talents to tick. The IT sort often (not always....I say that again) has the most disjointed view of their own/real value to a company. This thread is showing that nicely.
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BOOM, we have a winner. The business user verses the only world is my software view. Take the computer away you can still engineer stuff. It's just a tool that a bloke fixes, not something that God on a Unicorn fixes.
Since Windows 8 the control panel is a real mess. Feels like those russian dolls.
Imagine how different the world would be if we had so many educators. Instead we have so many who will shout or intolerant don't do that!
Fear comes from this. Failing isn't a problem. It is if you never learn from it.
Heh! With a generation of TL;DR? Most nowadays wont read more than 140 characters.
When the apocalypse comes I don't see there being much IT
But how will I kill zombies, the computer had trained me on this skill
I can really see all sides from different angles too..
I've worked with fellow techies that see it as beneath them even to talk to other lower grade techies, let alone end users.. Yeah it's a valuable waste of my time passing messages on, or talking to the end user, just because that person thinks they are above that.
As far as I'm concern 1st/2nd/3rd/Specialist roles are blurred lines, depending on which company you work for. Being a 3rd liner doesn't mean you only do 3rd line jobs and sit there doing nothing till your god like powers are needed, being a 3rd liner should mean that you can do any of the "lower" grade jobs. The help desk role don't just disappear once you get to 2nd /3rd line, and customer service don't stop ever. That said I am more than aware on how busy the upper tiers can get.
On the flip side, I been working in IT long enough to know that some end users just makes life hard for themselves by setting themselves up to fail then expecting someone to hold their hands. Some end users don't understand the phrase "keep it simple; stupid".
Like previously said, I much prefer the ones that can see you are trying to help and will listen rather the ones that thinks they know it, and are a danger to themselves. When I speak to my end users, I will never use jargon unless it's required, I don't bother correcting jargon unless it's miss leading or dangerous in the manner they are using it; I don't have time to argue and make fun of people.
The best way to resolve an issue is to prevent it and that is a case of teaching the end user what they done/doing wrong, it will stop bigger or ongoing issues from occurring.
Remember that the end users are not Mac OS, Linux or Windows users.., they are Office, Adobe or/and google apps users.. And to be perfectly honest; I bet most of my end users know how to use them better than me, we have highly specialised scientific software at my place that I don't have a clue about. But what I can do is refer them to another end user that can help or read the manual and understand.
I've worked with fellow techies that see it as beneath them even to talk to other lower grade techies, let alone end users.. Yeah it's a valuable waste of my time passing messages on, or talking to the end user, just because that person thinks they are above that.
As far as I'm concern 1st/2nd/3rd/Specialist roles are blurred lines, depending on which company you work for. Being a 3rd liner doesn't mean you only do 3rd line jobs and sit there doing nothing till your god like powers are needed, being a 3rd liner should mean that you can do any of the "lower" grade jobs. The help desk role don't just disappear once you get to 2nd /3rd line, and customer service don't stop ever. That said I am more than aware on how busy the upper tiers can get.
On the flip side, I been working in IT long enough to know that some end users just makes life hard for themselves by setting themselves up to fail then expecting someone to hold their hands. Some end users don't understand the phrase "keep it simple; stupid".
Like previously said, I much prefer the ones that can see you are trying to help and will listen rather the ones that thinks they know it, and are a danger to themselves. When I speak to my end users, I will never use jargon unless it's required, I don't bother correcting jargon unless it's miss leading or dangerous in the manner they are using it; I don't have time to argue and make fun of people.
The best way to resolve an issue is to prevent it and that is a case of teaching the end user what they done/doing wrong, it will stop bigger or ongoing issues from occurring.
Remember that the end users are not Mac OS, Linux or Windows users.., they are Office, Adobe or/and google apps users.. And to be perfectly honest; I bet most of my end users know how to use them better than me, we have highly specialised scientific software at my place that I don't have a clue about. But what I can do is refer them to another end user that can help or read the manual and understand.