Brexit thread - what happens next

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delta0 said:
I know there isn't a rebate. We pay in the total figure to the EU as well and get the rebate which is our net figure. If we ignore the word rebate and let's just say it is funding for various UK projects we have total money which includes a net contribution to the EU and funding for the various projects. Compared with the EEA total which is a net contribution and funding to various projects. We pay for these various projects in both situations. So the only comparison is the net figure.
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You've got it completely wrong in your head. I hope my post above helps you.

Its easily done because of the way it's been written on that website. I did the same at first.

The net figures are £10bn and £7bn.


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I'm doubting myself now.
 
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delta0 said:
Just use the totals from that table and imagine we get rebates for both situations EU and EEA.

Funds to UK comes from our total.
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you can't though, because under EEA we get no rebates, we fund the projects directly from our own coffers.

thus the actual total we pay the EU as a full member is the net figure post rebates

the actual total we pay the EU as EEA is 2.2 billion but the actual cost to us as a nation is actual 6.7 billion if we intend to keep the same level of funding to the regions/farmers/fisheries.

if you are saying that you wont keep the funding the same and you will in effect scrap all of it, then I agree we will save 8 billion. We aren't going to save 8 billion though. If we take the simple approach of saying we will maintian the same level of funding then the actual saving we make is only the difference between our net payment as a full member and our net payment as an EEA member + the expenditure we now make to replace what is lost due to no rebate.

You can't just go wow look we save all this money, because it is in effect a lie unless you qualify the statement by saying wow we save all this money (8 billion) because we are now giving nothing to farmers, fisheries and spending none of it on regions in regeneration projects or any other kind of funding.

Your logic unfortunately is flawed.
 
muon said:
You've got it completely wrong in your head. I hope my post above helps you.

Its easily done because of the way it's been written on that website. I did the same at first.

The net figures are £10bn and £7bn.


edit:

I'm doubting myself now.
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wildman said:
you can't though, because under EEA we get no rebates, we fund the projects directly from our own coffers.

thus the actual total we pay the EU as a full member is the net figure post rebates

the actual total we pay the EU as EEA is 2.2 billion but the actual cost to us as a nation is actual 6.7 billion if we intend to keep the same level of funding to the regions/farmers/fisheries.

if you are saying that you wont keep the funding the same and you will in effect scrap all of it, then I agree we will save 8 billion. We aren't going to save 8 billion though. If we take the simple approach of saying we will maintian the same level of funding then the actual saving we make is only the difference between our net payment as a full member and our net payment as an EEA member + the expenditure we now make to replace what is lost due to no rebate.

You can't just go wow look we save all this money, because it is in effect a lie unless you qualify the statement by saying wow we save all this money (8 billion) because we are now giving nothing to farmers, fisheries and spending none of it on regions in regeneration projects or any other kind of funding.

Your logic unfortunately is flawed.
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I know we don't get a rebate with EEA! I'm trying to make the comparison easier for you to understand. Clearly it went way over.

There is double accounting going on here which is incorrect. The maths is very simple. Total is what we pay in and a portion of that goes onto the various projects. It just so happens the EU pay for this now (from our total) and in the EEA we pay for this. We still pay the total at the end of the day!
 
delta0 said:
I know we don't get a rebate with EEA! I'm trying to make the comparison easier for you to understand. Clearly it went way over.

There is double accounting going on here which is incorrect. The maths is very simple. Total is what we pay in and a portion of that goes onto the various projects.
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Yeh I think you're right now.

The money coming back is pointless as it's your own money.

So £10bn net (or whatever the real number is ) vs £2.2bn.

or £14.4bn vs £6.7bn.
 
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muon said:
Think of it this way.

You pay me £19. I give you a rebate of £5, so you only have to pay me £14 in total.

Now I also give you £4 to buy some food (net payment is £10).

The second scenario. You only have to pay me £2. But what about your food?
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White Ace doesn't cost £8.
 
muon said:
Need someone else to say who's right.

I'm confused now.



Is it? Gonna come back to this tomorrow morning when I can think properly.
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not your logic Muon, Delta's

this is why I will reiterate that Thatcher was right when she said Referenda are dog****.

There is no sane way a member of the public can make a well informed decision on EU membership when the details and facts are just not capable of being made into sound bites to hand out to the average person.

All the bants aside I would like to think that the majority of people in this forum are reasonably intelligent and likely in most cases are above the nations average IQ yet look at chaos in here, a simple computer hardware forum

This is why the whole process has been a debacle.

Remain campaign had to produce sound bites based on the sky will fall if you leave because they had to get a message out that the average person could understand

leave campaign had to produce sound bites that appealed to the patriots with #takecontrol and unfortunately the racist element took that to mean "send them home"

it's a real dogs dinner. Cameron, Johnson, Osborne, Farage, Gove, Leadsom should all hang their heads in shame at what they have unleashed here. It's a serious dereliction of duty to both the electorate and the country.
 
SlyReaper said:
RUE BRITANNIA, BRITANNIA RUES THE VOTE :D
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Brexit: the final frontier.

These are the voyages of the starship Britannia. Its five-year mission: to explore strange new trade deals, to seek out new economic migrants and new civilization-crushing recessions, to quantitatively ease where every other major central banker has eased before...

*roll credits*
 
muon said:
Yeh I think you're right now.

The money coming back is pointless as it's your own money.

So £10bn net (or whatever the real number is ) vs £2.2bn.

or £14.4bn vs £6.7bn.
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Apologies, my fault also for not explaining it properly at the start. It made me double and triple check at least!
 
It's hard to imagine why smug arrogance and condescension didn't win over the hearts and minds of the working class. Never mind eh, onto finding ways to dismiss the vote
 
datalol-jack said:
Brexit: the final frontier.

These are the voyages of the starship Britannia. Its five-year mission: to explore strange new trade deals, to seek out new economic migrants and new civilization-crushing recessions, to quantitatively ease where every other major central banker has eased before...

*roll credits*
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staring Michael Gove - as any ferengi in the show and Teresa May as the head of the Tal Shiar
 
Roar87 said:
It's hard to imagine why smug arrogance and condescension didn't win over the hearts and minds of the working class. Never mind eh, onto finding ways to dismiss the vote
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on the same hand it's not exactly hard to understand why spouting populist lies and half truths were used to sucker those very same people in is making people stand up and say hang on thats not right either.

May (if she wins) has to start thinking how she is going to really put this country (i.,e the people) back together. I am not sure she can do it to be honest, I also think the current parties are now defunct, there is a whole new politics in the UK and I don't think any of the current parties are actually representative of what the different voters in the UK really want.
 
We could opt out of everything not related to market access and cut spending at home for maximum savings. At least in theory. The damage it would do however won't be politically palatable nor would it lead to anything like a saving in the long run, as regions continue to collapse (yes, I'm familiar with the line of thought in UKIP and the Tory party that basically says we should let them collapse, free-market style; neither is very vocal about how we would sell such measures to the electorate).
 
Welfare budget 258 billion
NHS budget 116 billion
Education budget 89 billion
Defence budget 45 billion

Just to give all these figures dome context.
 
I'm suprised the FTSE250 hasn't fully recovered yet given sales of shares in Saxa must have sky-rocketed with all the extra salt remainers have been producing in the last two weeks.
 
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