Piracy - A problem with consumers or the industry?

Glaucus · 8 Jul 2016 at 13:03

both, industry is reluctant to move on
and its a mix of convenience for some and don't wont to pay for others.
got amazon, Netflix and nowtv amd go to the cinema 1 or 2 times a month. anything not on that *cough*
but nor do I try to defend it, it is what it is.

exclusivity deals need to be made illegal, not that it will ever happen. content should be forced to sale to all providers at a reasonable price and time frame. Same sort of thing as BT having to lease their lines to third party internet companies.

Vonhelmet · 8 Jul 2016 at 13:22

Jamesyboyjim said:
It comes down to greed, the studios and distributors don't want to adapt to new ways because they are worried they might not make as much money, instead they lie about how much piracy costs them. If they did adapt and open up a subscription service that allowed users to see new films at a price that wasn't too silly, I think lots of people (myself included) would jump right on-board.

In the meantime, I'll occasionally go to the cinema, everything else I want to see gets acquired, I don't want to wait until 5 years down the line when it might appear on Netflix, (starting to question why I still pay for that, but that's another story).

Why anyone pays for Netflix in the UK is a mystery to me. NowTV is far superior.

Glaucus · 8 Jul 2016 at 13:27

Vonhelmet said:
Why anyone pays for Netflix in the UK is a mystery to me. NowTV is far superior.

now tv has new stuff but is extremely limited.

Netflix catalogue is many many times larger than now tv.
it also has the biggest collection of stand up, which for me at least is worth it.
and amazon easily wins on tv series.

just ditch tv/virgin/skv and tv license and get all 3 for cheaper.

Rich · 8 Jul 2016 at 13:40

Its the Industry.

Examples of doing it right - Spotify, Apple Music etc.

Examples of doing it wrong - All of the streaming video providers, including Netflix. Sky are easily the worst. Not are they more expensive than everyone else, but they have more adverts too.

If Netflix can get their international licensing sorted out so it is one unified library, they stand the best chance. That is never going to happen however. Until then, Usenet and Torrents will win out. The laughable thing is that most people are paying more for a Usenet setup than 5 netflix subscriptions by the time you have a decent provider and indexers. Not to mention a box turned on 24/7.

The other issue is the whole Cinema exclusive nonsense, which 100% needs to end. Unified libraries with unified release dates across all platforms and piracy goes out the window, for the most part.

SixTwoSix · 8 Jul 2016 at 13:50

Vonhelmet said:
Why anyone pays for Netflix in the UK is a mystery to me. NowTV is far superior.

Glaucus said:
now tv has new stuff but is extremely limited.

Now TV is better than Netflix for newer TV shows and movies, however Netflix does have the bigger library and better exclusives.

I have both as there are shows on each I really like that can't be had on the other. The movies aren't a consideration in my subscriptions, they are just an "extra".

Also i've never paid more than £4/month for NowTV movies by checking ebay periodically for passes.

Martini1991 · 8 Jul 2016 at 17:28

Vonhelmet said:
Why anyone pays for Netflix in the UK is a mystery to me. NowTV is far superior.

I pay for Netflix, but I find it largely meh. It's just used by a collective of people though.

Infidelus · 8 Jul 2016 at 18:08

I still pay for a lot of the stuff I get, although I'm not averse to using other methods if I really feel I need to.

I got fed up of going to the cinema with the advent of smartphones. It's really distracting and annoying seeing this bright glow from a few rows in front of you when you're trying to concentrate on a film. Can you people not possibly bear to be 'offline' for 2 blinking hours?! Christ!

For that reason alone I rarely go to the cinema anymore. I couldn't care less about 3D films or the exorbitant price they charge to have to put up with uncomfortable seats, morons with mobiles. Don't get me started on the price of any food you may choose to buy.

As for subscription channels, someone else has already mentioned it - I won't pay for any subscription where you have to sit through adverts as well. If I'm paying you a sub, all I want to see is show. Bunch of greedy barstools the lot of them.

Music is the one thing I pretty much always pay for. I regularly buy music from Google, Amazon etc and the occasional CD too, because I like to own the music I play. I don't want to suddenly not have access anymore if I let a subscription lapse. I have been known to download an album first to see if I like it. If I do, I buy it. If I don't, I delete it. Simple as that.

The industry need to realise there's always going to be someone smarter than them, and if they make content too inaccessible, too expensive, or too full of crappy adverts, people will get the content elsewhere. I'd be quite willing to pay for a reasonably priced cinema subscription if it meant I could watch the content in the comfort of my own living room when I wanted to watch it.

bayo000 · 8 Jul 2016 at 20:06

daz said:
When I was younger, everyone was downloading everything. I can't actually remember the last film I watched "illegally" now. Things are a lot better, IMO.

The biggest driver for me was availability - where they stagger releases around the world for example.

I think that's because as kids we didn't have money

Vonhelmet · 8 Jul 2016 at 20:19

Infidelus said:
The industry need to realise there's always going to be someone smarter than them, and if they make content too inaccessible, too expensive, or too full of crappy adverts, people will get the content elsewhere. I'd be quite willing to pay for a reasonably priced cinema subscription if it meant I could watch the content in the comfort of my own living room when I wanted to watch it.

Those services already exist. NowTV, Netflix, Amazon Prime are all great services. It is pretty much "the future" that you can click around and choose a film and it comes on. The only possible argument against any of these services is that the film you want to watch isn't on there. Aside from that these services are incredible. Maybe people don't see that if they weren't around for rewinding videos from blockbuster and trying to fix the tracking...

ExRayTed · 8 Jul 2016 at 20:34

Vonhelmet said:
Maybe people don't see that if they weren't around for rewinding videos from blockbuster and trying to fix the tracking...

But at least back then you could fast-forward through the annoying copyright warnings

Seanoog · 8 Jul 2016 at 21:41

For me it depends on the media in question:

For games or mobile applications, I have always bought them from Steam, or Android store, I have also used iTunes in the past with iPhone.
I have two active accounts, the content is always available and quick to download on new devices.
I prefare to get my content in sales, but for certain games at release will pay full RRP.

For Music, I am using Google Play Music subscription. Quick easy access to my rented music on mobiles or browser.
Sadly the one time I forgot to update bank details no music for 3 days; wasn't impressed Google, a little grace period would be cool.

For Movies, I go to the cinema once a month, for select big block busters, like The Force Awakens or Independence Day.
At £8.80 + food, a show at our local Max screen it's expensive, but a nice indulgence.

As for the other movies or TV Shows not on the priority list or last minute recommendation. Well then I go to the unspeakable place.
Most content is easily downloaded with excellent picture and audio quality, that takes up lots of storage.
But I have 16TB of mechanical storage, so is a no issue, in that regards.

I do this unspeakable act as I like to horde content and loathed to subscribe £60-100 too multiple providers, when I get half the content as American customers, plus all the adverts.
If I wanted adverts, I'd watch TV or Coronation street.

But each to there own, as long as we are enjoying our content.

Infidelus · 9 Jul 2016 at 11:50

Vonhelmet said:
Those services already exist. NowTV, Netflix, Amazon Prime are all great services. It is pretty much "the future" that you can click around and choose a film and it comes on. The only possible argument against any of these services is that the film you want to watch isn't on there. Aside from that these services are incredible. Maybe people don't see that if they weren't around for rewinding videos from blockbuster and trying to fix the tracking...

They don't exist though, not when it comes to films on at the cinema. If they ever come up with a subscription model for current cinema movies, I'm all in. Until then, I'll carry on doing my own thing.

As for the other services, I have Amazon Prime at the moment on a trial but there's very little on there that I care about. I'm certainly not going to pay for three different services at the same time on the offchance they might actually show something worth watching.

james.miller · 9 Jul 2016 at 12:05

ShortWarning said:
For me, personally? Yes I think £5 is too much to rent a film that may or not be any good when I'm already paying for streaming services and £18 for a cinema ticket.

You expect too much IMO.

Vonhelmet said:
Why anyone pays for Netflix in the UK is a mystery to me. NowTV is far superior.

i pay for both. I clearly wouldnt do that if everything i wanted to watch was on NowTv.

Vonhelmet · 9 Jul 2016 at 17:17

Infidelus said:
They don't exist though, not when it comes to films on at the cinema. If they ever come up with a subscription model for current cinema movies, I'm all in. Until then, I'll carry on doing my own thing.

All you're arguing about is timing. If you want to watch a film at home, wait. If you want to see it NOW then go to the cinema.

malachi · 9 Jul 2016 at 18:11

w1lliam said:
Odeon and Cineworld do unlimited monthly cards for less than £20 a month.

If that's too much...

*Take into account its an 12 month contact. Some you have the pay upfront costing £240.
*Certain cinemas restrict you from using the card on new releases, only 2 weeks after it can be used.
*It was £9.99 a few years back, experience of going to the cinema hasn't changed much to justify the price increase. Unless you into 3D.

Infidelus · 9 Jul 2016 at 18:20

Vonhelmet said:
All you're arguing about is timing. If you want to watch a film at home, wait. If you want to see it NOW then go to the cinema.

They can do it with TV shows, why can't they do it with movies? I'm quite happy to wait and buy the film if I think it's worth it. Unfortunately 90% of the drivel that's on at the cinema isn't worth paying for anyway, and in the same way I won't line the pockets of the music industry for producing crap, I won't give the movie industry money for repetitive dreary rubbish either.

I'm quite happy to plod along the same way I do now, which usually does mean waiting for the DVD release anyway, but if the movie industry want to have a chance of stopping piracy, they need to start making their content more accessible. It really is that simple.

Vonhelmet · 9 Jul 2016 at 20:05

Infidelus said:
They can do it with TV shows, why can't they do it with movies?

Because films are made for the cinema? And the majority make most of their money there?

Infidelus said:
I'm quite happy to wait and buy the film if I think it's worth it. Unfortunately 90% of the drivel that's on at the cinema isn't worth paying for anyway, and in the same way I won't line the pockets of the music industry for producing crap, I won't give the movie industry money for repetitive dreary rubbish either.

I never understand this argument. If it's rubbish then you don't have to pay for it because - get this - you don't have to watch it. You're not obliged to watch every film that comes out. You're not obliged to watch films full stop. You can do something else, read a book, go for a walk. And if you do want to watch loads of films, and fair play if you do, then there are about a century's worth of good films that you can watch. I'll wager you could watch a decent film every night for the rest of your life and still not get them all seen.

Infidelus said:
I'm quite happy to plod along the same way I do now, which usually does mean waiting for the DVD release anyway, but if the movie industry want to have a chance of stopping piracy, they need to start making their content more accessible. It really is that simple.

It is accessible. It's on at the cinema and then it comes out on streaming services and physical media. It's not like it's a choice between piracy and climbing to the top of Everest to watch a film.

Rannoch · 9 Jul 2016 at 20:26

I pay for Sky and Amazon Prime which include the movies. I also download a hell of a lot from a seedbox when I'm in Edinburgh. In fact,when I think about it probably about 30gb a day. Hence my large collection of large hard disks in raid. :rolleyes:

I have a problem for sure.

Amp34 · 9 Jul 2016 at 20:38

Vonhelmet said:
Those services already exist. NowTV, Netflix, Amazon Prime are all great services. It is pretty much "the future" that you can click around and choose a film and it comes on. The only possible argument against any of these services is that the film you want to watch isn't on there. Aside from that these services are incredible. Maybe people don't see that if they weren't around for rewinding videos from blockbuster and trying to fix the tracking...

Which is the biggest problem.

I have Amazon prime. It's great, but the availability of decent films is minimal. Until that is sorted out then it's not the future. If you could physically buy decent digital copies on those services that you could transfer elsewhere if wanted (i.e. The equivalent of a downloaded MKV) then that would be the future, or better yet have them free with the subscription you are paying for.

Infidelus · 9 Jul 2016 at 22:21

Vonhelmet said:
Because films are made for the cinema? And the majority make most of their money there?

They might be made for the cinema, but you can pretty much have a cinema sized screen at home nowadays, and given the choice of sitting at home with a 60" or larger TV and sitting at the cinema with a bunch of irritating, noisy, ignorant morons messing around with their mobiles, I know which I'd prefer.

Vonhelmet said:
I never understand this argument. If it's rubbish then you don't have to pay for it because - get this - you don't have to watch it. You're not obliged to watch every film that comes out. You're not obliged to watch films full stop. You can do something else, read a book, go for a walk. And if you do want to watch loads of films, and fair play if you do, then there are about a century's worth of good films that you can watch. I'll wager you could watch a decent film every night for the rest of your life and still not get them all seen.

You're right, I don't have to watch every film, and I don't. I selectively choose the films I want to watch, but as I'm not prepared to put up with the ****holes mentioned in the quote above, I rarely visit the cinema. Yes, I can wait for the DVD release, and in most cases I do as I've already mentioned, and I do have a large movie collection of films that I've bought and paid for. I've also bought and paid for a bunch of films that are utter turds that weren't worth the price of admission. Can I get my money back for the hours I've wasted on them please?

Vonhelmet said:
It is accessible. It's on at the cinema and then it comes out on streaming services and physical media. It's not like it's a choice between piracy and climbing to the top of Everest to watch a film.

See above. I do buy films when they're released, but if the movie industry weren't such a bunch of backwards idiots, they'd make current cinema releases available to those that don't want to go to the cinema, and they'd make money too. I know I'm not the only one willing to pay for that kind of service. It's not like the technology's not available. The movie industry just doesn't want to get with the times, and that's their problem and it will continue to cost them money until they actaully get off their collective arses and move with the times.