490 Rumours and more importantly, the future of MGPU.

h4rm0ny · 13 Jul 2016 at 16:48

Interesting though short read on wccftech here:

http://wccftech.com/amd-rx-490-mystery-4k-gaming-gpu-listed-sapphire

They're predicting a 490 from AMD before the year is out and that it will be a dual Polaris chip. I don't know if they're right, but I think they make a sound case for it being very possible.

For me, the existence of a 490 isn't the interesting part. It's that if there is such a dual-Polaris card, and if other comments from Raja bear out, then AMD is going to be aggressively pursuing mGPU as a mainstream goal. Presumably with a significant change in support to developers for it rather than what we're used to with CF and SLi.

That would make AMD's strategy of pursuing the mid-range first even more of a good strategic move for them because to someone with a mid range card like a 380 at the moment, the best upgrade strategy is to sell it and buy a more expensive card. If AMD establish mGPU as something that is widely supported and "just works", then the best upgrade strategy for someone with a 480 isn't going to be replacing it with a costlier card, it's going to be buying another 480.

Graphics card market when mGPU isn't some sporadic boost if you're lucky, but a commonplace thing, is going to look very different from today.

DiscoDave · 13 Jul 2016 at 16:50

I'm still not convinced with multi gpu cards.

Fair enough, the last (dual) one I had was a 4870x2 but hearing about compatibility, stuttering, scaling, heat, power, etc issues even with modern multi-gpu setups still leaves me feeling a bit deflated.

drunkenmaster · 13 Jul 2016 at 16:51

Civ 6 is coming out apparently with DX12 and explict MGPU supposedly at launch. MS have stated they are working to make MGPU work without as much/any dev input. Everyone is working towards it.

Finners · 13 Jul 2016 at 16:53

In a perfect would I'd love mgpu to be widespread but considering nvidia have removed sli support from their mid range card and have a huge market share and stacks of cash to throw at developers

I don't see a future where buying two mid range cards doesn't have significant drawbacks still.

h4rm0ny · 13 Jul 2016 at 16:55

DiscoDave said:
I'm still not convinced with multi gpu cards.

Fair enough, the last (dual) one I had was a 4870x2 but hearing about compatibility, stuttering, scaling, heat, power, etc issues even with modern multi-gpu setups still leaves me feeling a bit deflated.

The thing is, those have always been bolt-ons by developers fudging in SLi / CF support to their product, without as I understand it, any very well thought out approach in DX11. DX12 makes this a lot more viable I think, plus if AMD are going to make it a core goal, then we can expect a lot better approach.

It makes sense that they would do so. If you can hit the same (or close) performance with two small dies that you can with one big one, that's a win because you gain from the yield advantage.

Bantu · 13 Jul 2016 at 17:01

h4rm0ny said:
The thing is, those have always been bolt-ons by developers fudging in SLi / CF support to their product, without as I understand it, any very well thought out approach in DX11. DX12 makes this a lot more viable I think, plus if AMD are going to make it a core goal, then we can expect a lot better approach.

It makes sense that they would do so. If you can hit the same (or close) performance with two small dies that you can with one big one, that's a win because you gain from the yield advantage.

It's a trade-off. DX12 has explicit mGPU support, but places the burden on the developers rather than the drivers. It's probably more cost-effective for AMD this way, they can share some of the development costs with the game makers, though i don't pretend to know or understand their strategy.

Ultimately, multi-GPU is inevitable, but only in the medium-long term (5 years plus) i think.

Doogles · 13 Jul 2016 at 17:04

For AMD multi cores would be best as that seems to be where an awful lot of performance can be had for cheap, just look at used R9 295x2' going for £250 and they are on par or better a £400 GTX 1070 when crossfire works. Vulcan/DX12 is going to make it even more possible just have a look at 980ti working in tandum with a Fury X on google.

AlamoX · 13 Jul 2016 at 17:11

seriously, it's like what 3rd wccftech article about 490 ? all 3 basicaly saying the same thing, which is nothing

varkanoid · 13 Jul 2016 at 17:30

AlamoX said:
seriously, it's like what 3rd wccftech article about 490 ? all 3 basicaly saying the same thing, which is nothing

agree. Like I said in one of the others, dual 490 to equal GTX 1080 is the best AMD can do this round ? Shame.

Doom112 · 13 Jul 2016 at 17:32

if it is a Multi GPU then it simply means that AMD has given up on High end GPU competition.

r7slayer · 13 Jul 2016 at 17:40

Did DX11 not have any support for multi gpu support however there is still multi card configs for games? However DX12 has support for multi gpu but only developers can develop for multigpu? Where has this train of thought come from? nVidia and AMD can still work on multi gpu it just means the developers can now make multi gpu work with their games easier than before.

old gamer · 13 Jul 2016 at 17:48

I for one would like to see support for multi gpu and as for wccftech I have very little faith in the ill informed piffile they write

Gregster · 13 Jul 2016 at 17:55

mGPU would be fun I guess but like others have said, wccftech again with this click bait crap.

h4rm0ny · 13 Jul 2016 at 18:14

varkanoid said:
agree. Like I said in one of the others, dual 490 to equal GTX 1080 is the best AMD can do this round ? Shame.

Equal, possibly. But there's a very good chance Vega will exceed the 1080. If you can equal a 1080 with two 480s or (for slightly cheaper than 2x480s, a single 490) then that's a big deal because the profits for AMD will be better on that as smaller dies have much higher yields than larger dies (correct me if I'm wrong). It also gives a very smooth upgrade path for people with medium or low-end cards. Going from a 480 to two 480's is notably easier and cheaper than going from a single 480 to a single 1080.

SiDeards73 · 13 Jul 2016 at 18:33

There is low to no confidence in mgpu currently and until that changes its just not worth the risk or hassle.

The dx12 mgpu thing will help but we still need games built on dx12..

Right now single is still better

maonayze · 13 Jul 2016 at 18:50

Gregster said:
mGPU would be fun I guess but like others have said, wccftech again with this click bait crap.

I agree with the "It's Clickbait crap from Wccftech"

However....

If AMD do really go out all guns blazing for mGPU and get it right (I know, it's a big gamble and I may just be dreaming, but..) then it could become a really good upgrade path for mid-tier users.

I have seen a few RX480 CF videos where two RX480s come in just under a 1080 and well over a 1070 in most titles. Remember that this is under crossfire which isnt the best supported thing in the world by AMD, so if mGPU is supported well by AMD then who knows.

I also agree with the few comments above about the much better yields of the smaller chips and all of this also ties in to Adored TVs Masterplan videos. Now I know some of you are not fans of Adored TV but I really do think he has nailed what AMD are going to try to do and it is also the reason I am going mATX for my SFF build....2x RX480 (Just in case they do actually nail it) LOL

You have to keep your options open

If the RX490 is a dual P10 card then I think that they definately will be stepping up their mGPU approach and support and it will compete with 1080/1070 in that space and the Vega 10/11 will go up against 1080Ti. It will certainly be a cheap way of competing with GP104 for AMD. Come on AMD for once get it right.

Food for thought and interesting times ahead.

maonayze · 13 Jul 2016 at 19:01

varkanoid said:
agree. Like I said in one of the others, dual 490 to equal GTX 1080 is the best AMD can do this round ? Shame.

Actually it seems to be quite a clever way of competing if you take into account bigger and better yields on smaller chips....it's certainly a more cost effective way of doing it. AMD do have to nail mGPU/XFire support with Drivers and Devs to do it though...but it's not impossible.

Doom112 said:
if it is a Multi GPU then it simply means that AMD has given up on High end GPU competition.

Not sure why you say this knowing full well that Vega is due Q1 2017 to compete with GP102/GP100.

AMD are just opening up consumers options by allowing current RX480 users a cheap upgrade path to higher frame rates with a smaller outlay. It's the perfect antidote to what Nvidia are doing (Hiking the prices of the tiers up).

Right now I have a Fury Tri-X and I am thinking of building an SFF PC and I am considering getting two RX480s or possibly one RX490 (If it actually does materialize) or hanging on and waiting for Vega....I have quite a few possibilities and options, which IMHO is a good thing.

Obviously some of this does hang on the mGPU support from AMD. i.e. they must get it right.

pmc25 · 13 Jul 2016 at 19:15

It wouldn't be a surprise to see a 2 x Polaris 10 card by the end of the summer. Aside from probably being a very cost effective performance solution, it would tide some people over until Vega ... and (Fire)pro versions might prove to be the biggest sellers ever in said market segment. I can definitely see Apple ordering huge numbers for a refreshed Mac Pro.

What it wouldn't be is a replacement for the Pro Duo, or even the previous 295X / 7990 market segment.

In my opinion XBOX Scorpio will be dual GPU (or maybe even quad Polaris 11s) solution on an interposer or with some kind of custom interface. Also I think almost everyone expects Navi (Vega / Polaris replacement) to delve heavily into multi-gpu, with interposers or new interfaces / controllers.

What would be a surprise is if a 490 (dual P10) card arriving this year was anything other than conventional dual GPU (no interposer or new interface / controller).

But AMD have surprised before ... maybe they'll even find a way to get it working without explicit CF / mGPU support, which I'm sure is the ultimate goal.

nashathedog · 13 Jul 2016 at 19:38

I won't hold my breath for this, And if it happened I wouldn't hold my breath for anything more than a half hearted support effort leaving buyers feeling just how today's cf users feel, ie: screwed over. I've also learnt to not even bother with the click bait rubbish of that site,
How did Harry Stamper put it? "I'm sure you got a team of men sitting around somewhere right now just thinking **** up"
That sounds like how they work in the WCCFTech office if you ask me.

h4rm0ny · 13 Jul 2016 at 20:53

pmc25 said:
In my opinion XBOX Scorpio will be dual GPU (or maybe even quad Polaris 11s) solution on an interposer or with some kind of custom interface.

I don't think it will be (though am open to persuasion if there's some real reason to think so); but I will say that if it were, then mGPU is immediately mainstream and well-supported. There's no way it couldn't be if the Xbox went that route.

pmc25 said:
Also I think almost everyone expects Navi (Vega / Polaris replacement) to delve heavily into multi-gpu, with interposers or new interfaces / controllers.

Yep. Vega might "only" be HBM as its big innovation (still expect it to be great with an architecture designed for it). But it might be more and Navi certainly will be. I expect some incredibly cool stuff by Navi.