Brexit thread - what happens next

[Darujhistan]

remain in

You can't remain in.

 

[D.P.]

Scotland voted to remain part of the UK which was part of the EU not knowing that 2 years down the line the rest of the UK would vote to leave the EU against our wishes.

If people had known that we would be leaving the EU back in 2014 the result would not have been the same. At the very least all of the EU nationals living in Scotland would have voted to leave the UK.

Scotland wants different things from the rest of the UK. Why deny us democracy? Let us have our say now that things are vastly different from 2014. It doesn't matter what the SNP have said or done. It isn't about them. It is about making sure the Scottish people get what they want.

I got to say I agree in the strongest possible terms. 2 years ago I was absolutely appalled at the idea of Scottish Independence, it would ave been a disastrously stupid idea that would have had some pretty dire consequences for Scotland.

I said the same thing about Brexit. Now it looks like brexit is happening I absolutely think Scotland need another referendum because I for one would almost certainly change my vote to leave the cesspit of xenophobic middle endladers who have ruined the UK for decades to come.

 

[Burnsy2023]

I got to say I agree in the strongest possible terms. 2 years ago I was absolutely appalled at the idea of Scottish Independence, it would have been a disastrously stupid idea that would have had some pretty dire consequences for Scotland.

I said the same thing about Brexit. Now it looks like brexit is happening I absolutely think Scotland need another referendum because I for one would almost certainly change my vote to leave the cesspit of xenophobic middle Englanders who have ruined the UK for decades to come.

I agree wholeheartedly with this. I imagine enough Scots would also feel similar to make the result of any referendum very interesting indeed.

But with that said, just like with Brexit should have been, it should be more than a simple majority. Decisions such like this need decisive support, i.e. 60% or even 2/3 majority for independence.

 

[Judgeneo]

US bank buys new London office for rumoured £300m.

Wondering how the remainers can somehow spin this story into bad news

Probably say its only because of the weaker pound, and think that they've won the argument.

 

[Stolly]

Disagree. Most people I speak to here in the North where they voted leave massively did so because they dont want muslims coming here. ANy deal which does not reduce immigration to very low numbers will not be acceptable by them.

Yep, every single anti immigration person i know voted to leave and they voted to leave because they are concerned about immigration. They don't care if this damages the economy, or have managed to delude themselves that it doesn't matter.

 

[V F]

I got to say I agree in the strongest possible terms. 2 years ago I was absolutely appalled at the idea of Scottish Independence, it would ave been a disastrously stupid idea that would have had some pretty dire consequences for Scotland.

I said the same thing about Brexit. Now it looks like brexit is happening I absolutely think Scotland need another referendum because I for one would almost certainly change my vote to leave the cesspit of xenophobic middle endladers who have ruined the UK for decades to come.

If they were to leave, what about their currency? Nicola seems to want to adopt the Euro?

 

[Stolly]

Probably say its only because of the weaker pound, and think that they've won the argument.

Or rather point out that if this decision was announced recently, its been in the planning stages for months or even a year or two and will be part of a wider strategy. Meaning it would have happened if we voted leave or not, is unrelated to the EU and can't be claimed as a Brexit success.

 

[Cern]

Probably say its only because of the weaker pound, and think that they've won the argument.

Well the weaker pound is causing a lot of British owned businesses to come under threat from predatory overseas buyouts, for example the recent sale of ARM to Japan's Softbank.

You can spin that any way you like (eg it's great for Britain because it'll provide jobs) but the end result is still a loss of control, another asset gone to overseas ownership. "Take Back Control" my arse.

 

[SpeedFreak]

Well the weaker pound is causing a lot of British owned businesses to come under threat from predatory overseas buyouts, for example the recent sale of ARM to Japan's Softbank.

You can spin that any way you like (eg it's great for Britain because it'll provide jobs) but the end result is still a loss of control, another asset gone to overseas ownership. "Take Back Control" my arse.

Don't engage.

 

[[TW]Fox]

People can also change their minds. That's not a bad thing.

Great so lets have another EU exit referendum then? I'm sure quite a few people have changed their minds on that!

You can't constantly hold referendums on far reaching and huge issues every 2 years 'because people change their minds'.

Would we have had another referendum if oil had hit $250 a barrel completely changing the fiscal argument? That's another big change.

They asked for a referendum. It was granted. They voted to remain part of the UK. That should be that for a generation now.

The EU issue is so convenient - the reality is that the drum for yet another referendum began banging the day of the result.

Brexit is a disaster I agree, I wish it wasn't happening, I am annoyed it's happening and I along with many others are being pulled out of the EU against our wishes. But the UK voted as the UK.

The economic argument for Scotland didn't stack up last time and if anything the situation in that regard has worsened so how will it stack up this time? We've already had one pathetic referendum where the facts were ignored and people voted against the national interest, lets not have another one.

I'm a big fan of the EU but I can't help but be stunned about the irony of wanting to leave a Union to be independent and free..... so you can join another union, into which you trade less, have less in common, have less power and are geographically further from. It's just bizarre. Frankly the argument in favour of Scotland being independent outside of the EU makes more sense! At least then they get this amazing 'sovereignty' thats apparently worth all the Brexit hassle.

The best chance for this country now is for us all to stick together and get the best deal we can and not fall for the political aspirations of one person, like we nearly did last time. If we learn one thing from the Brexit farce let it be that fact should triumph emotion on issues like this.

 

[silversurfer]

Sterling going lower helps exporters sell more cheaply then others, thats why they want to buy ARM. The current owners of ARM can refuse to sell, many owners were already foreign as its listed globally much like BP is not actually purely British. None of that changed from leaving the EU afaik

Japan has been operating their business abroad for decades, nothing new. They saw a bargain and went for it, UK is an extremely good buy and its unlikely sterling will continually drop when useful business to the world exists here

 

[[TW]Fox]

Sterling going lower helps exporters sell more cheaply then others, thats why they want to buy ARM. The current owners of ARM can refuse to sell

ARM is a PLC - it is publicly traded, so the current owners number in the thousands and no one owner has sufficient holding to stop the sale, surely?

 

[Mulder]

That doesn't suggest that Spain would veto Scotland, as an independent nation, joining the EU. It just says Scotland must leave the UK first.

You're right.

Still, I doubt given the Catalonia situation Spain would be keen to welcome Scotland joining.

 

[Mulder]

ARM is a PLC - it is publicly traded, so the current owners number in the thousands and no one owner has sufficient holding to stop the sale, surely?

Yep, although the board gets to "recommend" the sale or not to the shareholders, and that advice is often followed.

 

[Burnsy2023]

Great so lets have another EU exit referendum then? I'm sure quite a few people have changed their minds on that!

Which is why referendums should be looking for 2/3 majorities to make sure there is significant support that will level out any short-term issues.

Also, a generation seems a rather arbitrary length, what's the rationale behind it?

 

[[TW]Fox]

Which is why referendums should be looking for 2/3 majorities to make sure there is significant support that will level out any short-term issues.

100% agree. There is no way this would happen in a Scottish independance referendum though as there is no way it'd go 2/3rd in favour of Yes.

Also, a generation seems a rather arbitrary length, what's the rationale behind it?

Because these things need to be few not often otherwise the constant state of flux and uncertainty benefits nobody. It was pitched as a once in a generation vote, they had it and now oh here we are again because the answer didn't suit the SNP the first time around.

Where are the facts to support the case for independence? Where are the facts to demonstrate how Scotland would be better off going it alone rather than being part of the UK? Does anyone even care about that side of it?

Are we supposed to ignore the 40% of Scottish voters who voted leave and pretend everyone in Scotland thinks the same thing?

If Scotland is to get another vote on independence then I see no reason why we shouldn't get another vote for EU membership. After all, Scotland leaving is a material change...

 

[Burnsy2023]

100% agree. There is no way this would happen in a Scottish independance referendum though as there is no way it'd go 2/3rd in favour of Yes.

Well, the case clearly hasn't been made out then.

Because these things need to be few not often otherwise the constant state of flux and uncertainty benefits nobody. It was pitched as a once in a generation vote, they had it and now oh here we are again because the answer didn't suit the SNP the first time around.

If you're going to use direct democracy, then you need to make sure you're making decisions that are not made on a whim and that have sustained support. I can't think of a worse way to do it than a single punt at what might be an unfortunate time.

 

[Cern]

Great so lets have another EU exit referendum then? I'm sure quite a few people have changed their minds on that!

You can't constantly hold referendums on far reaching and huge issues every 2 years 'because people change their minds'.

Would we have had another referendum if oil had hit $250 a barrel completely changing the fiscal argument? That's another big change.

They asked for a referendum. It was granted. They voted to remain part of the UK. That should be that for a generation now.

The EU issue is so convenient - the reality is that the drum for yet another referendum began banging the day of the result.

Well you could argue that you shouldn't hold referendums on "far reaching and huge issues" period. Many countries don't and won't because they recognise it is dangerous to make huge constitutional changes based on a snapshot of public opinion which can be influenced by all manner of extraneous and temporary factors. And those that do usually require a 2/3 majority.

Of course it's too late now, our government was too detached from the reality of most peoples lives, too smug and complacent to contemplate losing the vote and didn't expect the anti-establishment backlash they got.

The sad part is that whilst the anti-establishment backlash was a healthy thing, the EU was scapegoated for a lot of ills which were not it's fault.

Leaving the EU will not fix the problems of inequality, neglect and deep disenfranchisement which permeate vast swathes of Britain. It might even make it worse when the honeymoon period wears off and the reality bites that Brexit comes at a high economic price and does not solve any of the day-to-day problems that people are really disillusioned about.

 

[joeyjojo]

US bank buys new London office for rumoured £300m.

Wondering how the remainers can somehow spin this story into bad news

At first glance it's great news, an American bank increasing their operations in the City. Unfortunately the final paragraph says

"With this new building in London, we are able to bring our team members together in one location in order to more efficiently and effectively manage our operations," said Frank Pizzo, Wells Fargo regional president for Europe Middle East & Africa (EMEA).

So it's not really a great endorsement, they're just moving some people around, probably to cut costs.

Beats them planning on moving jobs out of London though I suppose.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Well you could argue that you shouldn't hold referendums on "far reaching and huge issues" period. Many countries don't and won't because they recognise it is dangerous to make huge constitutional changes based on a snapshot of public opinion which can be influenced by all manner of extraneous and temporary factors. And those that do usually require a 2/3 majority.

I could not agree with you more.