German train 'axe attack'

[Freakbro]

Most people have the sense to filter that through modern ethics and law. Unfortunately, not everyone has the advantage of this education to make that readjustment. Add in repression of normal desires that are castigated, poverty, repression and prejudice and you get a nasty cocktail. So until people realise they are filtering these things and therefore the word of their god is quite clearly wrong and therefore they need to get a grip and stop this religious nonsense or you actually educate everyone so they actually have the ability to filter you are screwed.

As much as the picture of all these terrorists being uneducated, disaffected youth with a chip on their shoulder about western society is an understandable, and an even comfortable, image of who these people are and why they do it...it doesn't always seem to bear out though.

What I then find confusing and hard to rationalise is the number of people we see from middle class fairly affluent backgrounds, older, well educated who still go off and pledge alliengence to groups like ISIS

Are these just the exceptions that proves the rule? are they just emotionally naive and are clutching onto 'faith' to fill a void? I honestly don't know, but I feel more disquiet when I see these stories than when some petty thief loner goes on a rampage, as that is far easier to understand.

 

[scorza]

but was he a lone nutter that did it off his own back, or was he convinced to do it by others?

I don't really see why that matters too much. What does matter is that Mrs Merkel has invited hundreds of thousands of soldiers of Allah into Europe and that attacks like this are the inevitable consequence and I fear that much, much worse is to come. We are so, so dumb in the west right now.

 

[Boycey0211]

WTf, scorza being serous or is he trolling again?

Of course he's trolling, did you really expect anything else?

 

[estebanrey]

#RefugeeLivesMatter. Shame on the German police for shooting this kid, he just didn't realise that attacking people with axes isn't OK in Europe. It's the German government's fault for not sending him on a training course instructing him how to not attack people with axes.

Believe me, there will be a opinion piece in the Guardian that will try and mitigate this crime. I'm going with blaming 'the West' for destabilising this poor lad's homeland, motivating him to come to Europe to get revenge.

 

[estebanrey]

Of course he's trolling, did you really expect anything else?

Can people not be sarcastic anymore, or is any non-100% serious post considered "trolling" now?

 

[mid_gen]

Forget guns and bombs. Trucks, axes and knives are the way of the future, and a lot easier to get.

Precisely why we need to start making a concerted effort to undo the damage done by the past few decades of Western interventionist foreign policy. It's been an absolute disaster for the Middle East, and it's increasingly an absolute disaster for Europe, and it's going to take years if not decades to fix.

If someone is sufficiently motivated to kill themselves and take other people with them, there is not a huge amount we can do about it. A certain degree of enhanced border controls are inevitable, but *it will not fix the problem*

And before the usual rabble start throwing the usual liberal slurs around, try to understand that empathy and sympathy are not the same thing. Being able to empathise with a kid that's grown up in a warzone and understand what his motivations may be for committing terrible acts, is not the same as being sympathetic or condoning their actions.

 

[Xordium]

Well he shouted "Allahu Ackbar" while he was carrying out his attack and had an Islamic State flag. So no, I dunno either.

Rather than be sarcastic you could have taken his post at face value and maybe think that the chances are whilst he justified his attack with Islamic rhetoric the likelihood is that he may have performed the attack for a different reason and therefore it is imperative to find out all the stimuli for such actions.

Was this attacked always intended - was this his purpose in coming over?
Was this a copycat attack because such events are so newsworthy?
Was he having problems with something specific?

 

[NoobCannon]

Precisely why we need to start making a concerted effort to undo the damage done by the past few decades of Western interventionist foreign policy. It's been an absolute disaster for the Middle East, and it's increasingly an absolute disaster for Europe, and it's going to take years if not decades to fix.

If someone is sufficiently motivated to kill themselves and take other people with them, there is not a huge amount we can do about it. A certain degree of enhanced border controls are inevitable, but *it will not fix the problem*

And before the usual rabble start throwing the usual liberal slurs around, try to understand that empathy and sympathy are not the same thing. Being able to empathise with a kid that's grown up in a warzone and understand what his motivations may be for committing terrible acts, is not the same as being sympathetic or condoning their actions.

We have a Winner.

129 posts before the west is blamed

 

[Xordium]

there will be a opinion piece in the Guardian that will try and mitigate this crime.

I would think the Guardian as per their usual agenda will try and give this as little coverage as possible, refer to him by his age as an indentifier rather than his immigration status or religious behaviour, hide the coverage in small text below other newsworthy events (eg anti rightwing rhetoric), not use pictures if at all possible on the main home page etc.

 

[Dis86]

I was just getting in there before the usual mob come screaming in with their usual guff.

The irony is you were right even though you were attempting to be facetious!

 

[Xordium]

We have a Winner.

129 posts before the west is blamed

So you think the actions of the west have not contributed in some way then? I don't see that post apportioning total blame - do you?

Do you not think there is a problem with the way the west has behaved?
Do you not think there is a problem with how inflexible and intolerant Islam in several parts of their main texts?
Do you not think there is a problem with excessive media coverage and how it can bring people around to doing things because they've seen other people do them?
Etc etc

To flippantly throw this at the West's door is stupid - to throw it all at Islam's door is equally stupid. Do deny that both of those things have a major part to play in driving such people is also stupid.

 

[mid_gen]

We have a Winner.

129 posts before the west is blamed

No, you are inferring that from what I've said and twisting it to fit your world view.

The blame for this attack lies solely at the hands of the kid that did it.

Wishing to address the root cause of the problem we now face in the West does not equal absolving people of responsibility for perpetrating them.

 

[scorza]

So you think the actions of the west have not contributed in some way then? I don't see that post apportioning total blame - do you?

Do you not think there is a problem with the way the west has behaved?
Do you not think there is a problem with how inflexible and intolerant Islam in several parts of their main texts?
Do you not think there is a problem with excessive media coverage and how it can bring people around to doing things because they've seen other people do them?
Etc etc

To flippantly throw this at the West's door is stupid - to throw it all at Islam's door is equally stupid. Do deny that both of those things have a major part to play in driving such people is also stupid.

I think the west has responded to the global jihad in an extremely dumb way, but let's remember that Afghanistan was an Islamic State when we invaded it and we invaded it because they were hosting the Al-Queda leadership who plotted the 9/11 attack. Whatever else we got wrong, invading Afghanistan was not dumb, we had to do it.

 

[RaohNS]

No, you are inferring that from what I've said and twisting it to fit your world view.

The blame for this attack lies solely at the hands of the kid that did it.

Wishing to address the root cause of the problem we now face in the West does not equal absolving people of responsibility for perpetrating them.

This. Its a case of see something say something.

A lot of deflecting goes on and yes we know that this I a minority occurrence but we are reading about attacks by refugees et al almost daily and that's just what is allowed to be reported by western media.

Inequality is the root cause of a lot of things but as mg says that doesn't make something permissible

 

[Tefal]

No, you are inferring that from what I've said and twisting it to fit your world view.

The blame for this attack lies solely at the hands of the kid that did it.

Wishing to address the root cause of the problem we now face in the West does not equal absolving people of responsibility for perpetrating them.

So when those middle class banglesdeshi kids went got trained by AQ/isis came back and commited a bunch of attacks in bangledesh.

That was a reault of the wests intervention in the middle east, or bangledeah's?

 

[Tefal]

I think the west has responded to the global jihad in an extremely dumb way, but let's remember that Afghanistan was an Islamic State when we invaded it and we invaded it because they were hosting the Al-Queda leadership who plotted the 9/11 attack. Whatever else we got wrong, invading Afghanistan was not dumb, we had to do it.

Ermm didn't it turn out to be pakistan that was hosting the AQ leadership?

 

[scorza]

Ermm didn't it turn out to be pakistan that was hosting the AQ leadership?

Later yes, but OBL was in the Tora Bora cave complex at the time of the invasion. One of the things we got wrong was that we failed to kill or capture him quickly - I accept that was never going to be easy.

 

[RaohNS]

I think the west has responded to the global jihad in an extremely dumb way, but let's remember that Afghanistan was an Islamic State when we invaded it and we invaded it because they were hosting the Al-Queda leadership who plotted the 9/11 attack. Whatever else we got wrong, invading Afghanistan was not dumb, we had to do it.

This is true but again to draw a parallel bin Laden was once a US acolyte in whatever position that may have been; jihadist, terrorist, commander, CIA operative, middle man or whatever.

Its reported there were repeated chances to get him in the 90's and all turned down. Its a strange situation in that the US will be friends with someone so quickly but make them out to be the epitome of evil so quickly

 

[Tefal]

Later yes, but OBL was in the Tora Bora cave complex at the time of the invasion. One of the things we got wrong was that we failed to kill or capture him quickly - I accept that was never going to be easy.

So should we have invaded pakistan?

Or instead should we have a done a surgical strike in Afghanistan likenwe did for pakistan

 

[RaohNS]

So when those middle class banglesdeshi kids went got trained by AQ/isis came back and commited a bunch of attacks in bangledesh.

That was a reault of the wests intervention in the middle east, or bangledeah's?

He has said the deed lay solely in the hands of the murderer did he not? Or did I miss something