Lease vs my 2009 Civic

Relentless81 · 19 Jul 2016 at 09:20

Hi all,

I'm looking for a sanity check please, feel free to criticise my thinking here as I feel I am helplessly slipping into the trap of the monthly figure and not looking at the overall costs.

Firstly, lease/PCP appeals to me because of the trouble free aspect, I have never owned a car long enough to actually own it IE not have any outstanding finance, I've always owned older cars so always paid out for servicing etc I tend to keep them around 12/24 months and get rid, I dont know why, mental issues probably.

I currently own a 2009 Honda Civic, I bought it last year with a small deposit and owe around £5k on it, the plan at the time was to try and pay it off as quickly as possible and I have saved up some money for that purpose however its looking like I am going to need to put that money toward other things, that and I begrudge the monthly payment plus the saving up to pay it off

My thinking is, I have a 7 year old car of which I am paying £175 a month toward plus maintenance, I keep seeing lease deals with no maintenance costs, cheaper to run and insure for less than that, I have the deposit, no temptation to mess with the car, hand it back when done and start again. The only thing I can think of with a lease is, you need a deposit for your next lease.

I highly doubt I am going to keep my car until its fully paid off, what I need to try and figure out is what the best time is to engage in a lease IE when my car is next due a service/mot (they are due at the same time) or do I start saving on the monthlies and do it ASAP

Spanner in the works is PCP a better option? I dont think you can trade in against a lease but you can against PCP is that right? I could sell my car privately if I obtained a lease though.

Any advice appreciated, especially from those in the know with finances, I am trying to be careful with my monthly outgoings here, the aim is to bring down the cost of running a car whilst not making any terrible mistakes and getting sucked into any traps, I do find this kind of thing confusing so looking for advice please

Thanks

LiE · 19 Jul 2016 at 09:24

What have you seen for £175/month? Most low monthly lease deals will be due to a decent deposit and low mileage cap. Look at how much it will cost over the lease period. Your current cost isn't massive.

Relentless81 · 19 Jul 2016 at 09:34

I only do about 6k PA, you can get a fiesta from £120 pm although I could a little more than that

Dogbreath · 19 Jul 2016 at 09:37

Exactly what LiE says. If you want something reasonably nice for £175pm them you are going to need a pretty good size deposit.

Also why is the Civic costing you £175pm in maintenance? My Type R is now 13 years old and I do 15k/year and it's not costing me that much.

paradigm · 19 Jul 2016 at 09:41

Dogbreath said:
Also why is the Civic costing you £175pm in maintenance?

I think you misread. He pays £175/month, plus £whatever maintenance.

kaptainmarc · 19 Jul 2016 at 09:41

Dogbreath said:
Exactly what LiE says. If you want something reasonably nice for £175pm them you are going to need a pretty good size deposit.

Also why is the Civic costing you £175pm in maintenance? My Type R is now 13 years old and I do 15k/year and it's not costing me that much.

hes not, its £175 for finance and then all the maintenance on top etc

OP you need to remember that with leasing at the end you are left with nothing, no deposit for the next car, so factor in the money you would need to be saving for when the lease deal finishes

Relentless81 · 19 Jul 2016 at 09:47

As clarified, £175pm finance plus maintenance

I'll be looking at something cheap to run as my commute is short so 1.0 Ecoboost or 1.2 TSI etc these will be less than £175 a month

The main aim is to lower my outgoings, I can afford to keep my current car if I wanted to, its not about that. I just dont see the point in paying £175 plus maintenance plus saving up to pay it off when its 7 year old I would rather put the difference of a cheaper solution into other things

[TW]Fox · 19 Jul 2016 at 09:55

You need to actually find a lease you want first of the whole thing is academic. Most leases deals are expensive. The trick is finding ones which are not.

Darryl_1983 · 19 Jul 2016 at 09:57

Keeping the Civic is going to be the cheapest solution long term. You only do 6k a year, so maintainance should be relatively low on a car that should be pretty reliable.

Use the money you've got sent aside for the deposit on a lease car to pay off part of the finance on you Civic, this will either lower your payments or reduce the borrowing term.

Also I doubt you'd feel your money was well spent after driving something like a fiesta around for 2 years, then walking away from it with nothing and needing to find a deposit for anther lease deal or car purchase.

Relentless81 · 19 Jul 2016 at 09:59

[TW]Fox;29799364 said:
You need to actually find a lease you want first of the whole thing is academic. Most leases deals are expensive. The trick is finding ones which are not.

Thanks, can we say for example I found one that was £130 a month over two years with £750 down

Would that be something that would be worth going for over what I have now? I know what your saying is that I need the actual figures but I am bit backwards, if I know the figure I need to aim for I can see whats available for that amount

Armageus · 19 Jul 2016 at 10:03

Relentless81 said:
As clarified, £175pm finance plus maintenance

I'll be looking at something cheap to run as my commute is short so 1.0 Ecoboost or 1.2 TSI etc these will be less than £175 a month

The main aim is to lower my outgoings, I can afford to keep my current car if I wanted to, its not about that. I just dont see the point in paying £175 plus maintenance plus saving up to pay it off when its 7 year old I would rather put the difference of a cheaper solution into other things

At 6k miles a year, the maintenance and running costs of a car are surely going to be negligible anyway. The difference in fuel between whatever Civic you have and a 1.0t, will be a couple of hundred quid a year, plus maybe a couple of hundred quid for VED.

I don't see this huge saving that you are thinking there will be?

Assuming actually you just want to change your car because you want a new car, then you still have to deal with the issue of paying off the existing finance?

Relentless81 · 19 Jul 2016 at 10:26

I'm not thinking there will be a huge saving I am asking if there will be, my thoughts are -

£50 a month less finance

Anywhere between £100 and £250 a month saving to pay off current car

Fuel
Tax
Maintenance

I do want to change car, I can get away with a smaller car and I would like some of the nice to haves that my current car lacks

Finance would be cleared with the sale of my current car

Armageus · 19 Jul 2016 at 10:39

Relentless81 said:
I'm not thinking there will be a huge saving I am asking if there will be, my thoughts are -

£50 a month less finance

Anywhere between £100 and £250 a month saving to pay off current car

Fuel
Tax
Maintenance

What engine does your current civic have? We can work out approximate VED and fuel savings if we know that.

Relentless81 said:
I do want to change car, I can get away with a smaller car and I would like some of the nice to haves that my current car lacks

But it sounds like you just keep getting bored of cars and want to change? Surely a lease isn't the best way of going about this (as I didn't think you could hand lease cars back early without substantial penalty?)

What "nice haves" if your current Civic missing?

rodenal · 19 Jul 2016 at 10:44

You might find that you're not actually particularly impressed by the smaller class of cars after having the Honda if you ever use the space or versatility it offers

For all the interior isn't the best it's still better than the current fiesta, ours seems to mark particularly easily, particularly the seats, in in titanium trim at least.

Consider that you're stuck with your lease for the term as above, if you want out you'll pay most of the remaining payments

Relentless81 · 19 Jul 2016 at 10:46

It is the 1.8 petrol, currently getting 34.6 MPG over 1800 miles according to the trip computer, I think the tax is £180 per year if I remember rightly

Yes I never owned a car more than two years and I always mess with them, leasing seems a good idea in that respect as I get to change every two years and I cant mess with it. I wouldnt be looking to hand it back early as that would defeat the whole point

Nice to haves, I would prefer something that handles better first and foremost, not interested in out right performance anymore but I am interested in handling and my current car is terrible.
Other than that newer, Bluetooth and a better stereo, also smaller so that I can squeeze it into a certain part of the drive way freeing up access to the rest of the drive. Basic stuff but this isnt the main reason, the main reason is monthly outgoings.

Armageus · 19 Jul 2016 at 11:06

Relentless81 said:
It is the 1.8 petrol, currently getting 34.6 MPG over 1800 miles according to the trip computer, I think the tax is £180 per year if I remember rightly

At 6k miles a year, you will save £198.11 in fuel, and £180 year VED (as a 1.0T ecoboost fiesta is band A £0/year).

So basically - £31.51 / month saving. Insurance might be a bit lower as the Fiesta is in a lower group than a Civic, but again it might not be, as I'm sure Fiesta's statistically are probably more risk due to young drivers.

Maintenance is harder to quantify, but at 6k/year you aren't exactly going to be chewing through tyres and brakes, so probably just the cost of a service every year - say £150 - so another £12.50/month. And an MOT at about £40/year - so £3.34/month, and we are up to about £47.35/month in running costs.

Even if you factored in a couple of hundred quid/year in unexpected costs, then you are nowhere near your imaginary £100-£250/month saving - it's not like Honda Civics are either a unreliable, or expensive to maintain car.

Relentless81 said:
Nice to haves, I would prefer something that handles better first and foremost, not interested in out right performance anymore but I am interested in handling and my current car is terrible.

If you want to improve the handling, then look into some suspension upgrades. As far as I know the Civic is a reasonable handling car - certainly a "normal" (i.e. non-ST) Fiesta isn't going to be much better.

Relentless81 said:
Other than that newer, Bluetooth and a better stereo, also smaller so that I can squeeze it into a certain part of the drive way freeing up access to the rest of the drive. Basic stuff but this isnt the main reason, the main reason is monthly outgoings.

You can fit a Parrot or similar bluetooth, or an aftermarket stereo for a couple of hundred quid. As for a smaller car for the driveway - only you can decide if that is reason enough, but as you say monthly outgoings are your main concern, and I don't see it making sense.

Darryl_1983 · 19 Jul 2016 at 11:07

Relentless81 said:
It is the 1.8 petrol, currently getting 34.6 MPG over 1800 miles according to the trip computer, I think the tax is £180 per year if I remember rightly

Yes I never owned a car more than two years and I always mess with them, leasing seems a good idea in that respect as I get to change every two years and I cant mess with it. I wouldnt be looking to hand it back early as that would defeat the whole point

Nice to haves, I would prefer something that handles better first and foremost, not interested in out right performance anymore but I am interested in handling and my current car is terrible.
Other than that newer, Bluetooth and a better stereo, also smaller so that I can squeeze it into a certain part of the drive way freeing up access to the rest of the drive. Basic stuff but this isnt the main reason, the main reason is monthly outgoings.

If the civic handles terrible, I suspect you need to fit better tyres.

The 1.8 litre engine is pretty decent and anything in a small car that'll save you money will probably feel rubbish in comparison.

You are not going to be able to replace your civic with a car that is going to be better, newer and cheaper.

Relentless81 · 19 Jul 2016 at 11:26

Armageus said:
At 6k miles a year, you will save £198.11 in fuel, and £180 year VED (as a 1.0T ecoboost fiesta is band A £0/year).

So basically - £31.51 / month saving. Insurance might be a bit lower as the Fiesta is in a lower group than a Civic, but again it might not be, as I'm sure Fiesta's statistically are probably more risk due to young drivers.

Maintenance is harder to quantify, but at 6k/year you aren't exactly going to be chewing through tyres and brakes, so probably just the cost of a service every year - say £150 - so another £12.50/month. And an MOT at about £40/year - so £3.34/month, and we are up to about £47.35/month in running costs.

Even if you factored in a couple of hundred quid/year in unexpected costs, then you are nowhere near your imaginary £100-£250/month saving - it's not like Honda Civics are either a unreliable, or expensive to maintain car.

If you want to improve the handling, then look into some suspension upgrades. As far as I know the Civic is a reasonable handling car - certainly a "normal" (i.e. non-ST) Fiesta isn't going to be much better.

You can fit a Parrot or similar bluetooth, or an aftermarket stereo for a couple of hundred quid. As for a smaller car for the driveway - only you can decide if that is reason enough, but as you say monthly outgoings are your main concern, and I don't see it making sense.

I think you've gotten confused with my "Imaginary" figures so I'll repeat and try to explain again -

I currently pay £175 a month for a 7 year old car
Lease approx £125 so there is £50 a month

I currently save between £100 and £250 a month toward paying off my current car, I wouldnt need to that with a lease however I would need to ensure I have a deposit for the next lease before the 2 years is up

You have now said that I could save a further £47 a month in maintenance and fuel, thats interesting and if anything a reason to consider it further

Reviews slate this model Civic handling and ride quality and praise the Fiesta's, obviously I would test drive to confirm I am certainly not spending money on the Civic to the tune of lowering springs and Parrot install, that completely defeats the whole point of what I am trying to achieve

Darryl_1983 said:
If the civic handles terrible, I suspect you need to fit better tyres.

The 1.8 litre engine is pretty decent and anything in a small car that'll save you money will probably feel rubbish in comparison.

You are not going to be able to replace your civic with a car that is going to be better, newer and cheaper.

It has Michelin Pilot Sport 3 all round, please dont assume these things as you wont always be correct, this particular model Civic is well known for poor handling

The 1.8 engine is ok, for my commute I would prefer some easily accessible torque

Armageus · 19 Jul 2016 at 11:44

Relentless81 said:
Thanks, can we say for example I found one that was £130 a month over two years with £750 down

The £750 downpayment is still a big chunk to come off whatever saving you are making over the 2 Year lease period.

Relentless81 said:
I think you've gotten confused with my "Imaginary" figures so I'll repeat and try to explain again -

I currently pay £175 a month for a 7 year old car
Lease approx £125 so there is £50 a month

I currently save between £100 and £250 a month toward paying off my current car, I wouldnt need to that with a lease however I would need to ensure I have a deposit for the next lease before the 2 years is up

You have now said that I could save a further £47 a month in maintenance and fuel, thats interesting and if anything a reason to consider it further

How much longer is there to run on your existing finance?

Relentless81 said:
Reviews slate this model Civic handling and ride quality and praise the Fiesta's, obviously I would test drive to confirm I am certainly not spending money on the Civic to the tune of lowering springs and Parrot install, that completely defeats the whole point of what I am trying to achieve

It has Michelin Pilot Sport 3 all round, please dont assume these things as you wont always be correct, this particular model Civic is well known for poor handling

The 1.8 engine is ok, for my commute I would prefer some easily accessible torque

I did a quick google when finding the figures to work out the savings above, and none of the reviews mentioned the handling as being bad.

Pilot Sport 3's whilst still good, get slated on here, so I wouldn't say they were the pinnacle of best handling tyres.

A 1.0T Fiesta may have more low down torque, but it's still 40bhp down on a civic and over 2 seconds slower to 60.

The Parrot and suspension kit was just a suggestion - not necessarily the right one, but relatively cheap in the scheme of things, if those issues bother you that much.

Relentless81 · 19 Jul 2016 at 11:56

Armageus said:
The £750 downpayment is still a big chunk to come off whatever saving you are making over the 2 Year lease period.

How much longer is there to run on your existing finance?

I did a quick google when finding the figures to work out the savings above, and none of the reviews mentioned the handling as being bad.

Pilot Sport 3's whilst still good, get slated on here, so I wouldn't say they were the pinnacle of best handling tyres.

A 1.0T Fiesta may have more low down torque, but it's still 40bhp down on a civic and over 2 seconds slower to 60.

The Parrot and suspension kit was just a suggestion - not necessarily the right one, but relatively cheap in the scheme of things, if those issues bother you that much.

Agreed on the £750 I need to work out if that spread over two years is better than continuing to plough savings which could be spent elsewhere into my current car only to end up replacing it as soon as its paid off

Existing finance £5400 - £175 a month - whatever I save per month on top which is currently £100 to £250

The 8th gen Civic in regards to handling? I remember that being one of the things they were slated for, even the TypeR I was happy with it at time of purchase but over time its getting a bit annoying but certaintaly not the reason I am considering the change, the main reason is monthly outgoings and TCO over the next two years

PS3 arent the pinnacle but they arent budget as was being suggested

The 1.8 RSI VTEC engine is 138 BHP, the current revision of the 1.0 Ecoboost is 140BHP, you have to rev the 1.8 obviously with it being a VTEC engine but I never really get to use whatever power it has as my commute and local roads dont allow me to and even then I am bit bored of this after owning many Hondas I really fancy a change, something with the power more easily accessible would be better suited