Summer Transfer Window 2016/17 - Rumours & Signings

MissChief · 20 Jul 2016 at 15:10

Robbo said:
We'll make the £100m back in shirt sales alone.

This is, quite frankly, garbage.

United might make £50 from an adult shirt sold directly through the club shop or online. However, online sales, sales abroad and others potentially buying cheap Chinese knock offs at a much reduced price where United get the precise sum of sod all means that, by my maths, they would need to sell more than TWO MILLION shirts when I don't know of anyone but the most delusional fan who buys a new shirt every season. And do you think anyone that has already bought a Martial or Rooney shirt is going to rush down to the Club store and pay another £80 for an identical shirt, save the 'Pogba' on the back? :confused:

Robbo · 20 Jul 2016 at 15:19

BaZ87 · 20 Jul 2016 at 15:22

I hope Robbo was just joking or I'll have a word and get him demoted to a UB again. This shirt sales and marketing stuff is the biggest load of exaggerated BS ever and it gets brought up every transfer window.

And MissChief, Utd sell a shirt for ~£50 they don't make £50:

https://twitter.com/MC_of_A/status/749575114585468928

MissChief · 20 Jul 2016 at 15:25

I must admit I didn't know how much they made and just figured a decent wedge of the selling price. Most of that goes back to Nike, Adidas etc which is why they pay huge amounts up front I'd assume.

shipinabottle · 20 Jul 2016 at 15:46

BaZ87 said:
I hope Robbo was just joking or I'll have a word and get him demoted to a UB again. This shirt sales and marketing stuff is the biggest load of exaggerated BS ever and it gets brought up every transfer window.

And MissChief, Utd sell a shirt for ~£50 they don't make £50:

https://twitter.com/MC_of_A/status/749575114585468928

Nobody said shirt sales drive decisions.

But to say that Pogba's price isn't dictated by his market potential is ridiculous. Clubs are a business, especially with the Glazers. You think United are going to spend £100m on a player and basically that's the loss you take? That's not how it works.
A business case will have been made based on potential impact on performances/results and also his ability to draw money into the club.

I forget that Rooney is being paid 300k for his football skills alone....

Tombstone · 20 Jul 2016 at 15:48

One thing is for sure, Pogba is going to get a lot of grief from costing that much. Just look at how people slate someone who cost 35m when they kick a ball wide, skew a shot miles past the post, give the ball away needlessly which leads to a goal, brings someone down with a blatant foul and concedes a penalty. There are no end of so thats worth 35m is it jibes. Imagine what will be said if Pogba does any of those things under this sort of price tag.

BaZ87 · 20 Jul 2016 at 15:52

shipinabottle said:
Nobody said shirt sales drive decisions.

But to say that Pogba's price isn't dictated by his market potential is ridiculous. Clubs are a business, especially with the Glazers. You think United are going to spend £100m on a player and basically that's the loss you take? That's not how it works.

I forget that Rooney is being paid 300k for his football skills alone....

I didn't say anybody they did :confused:

The link was to show the profit a club makes on shirt sales and just how many shirts are actually sold following MissChief's post.

That said, again, the stuff about marketing potential and shirt sales is exaggerated bulll****! It gets brought up time and time again and it's a load of ****. 99.9% of the decision to pay £100m for Pogba or pay Rooney £300k per week is football related. Individual players make such a small difference to a club like Utd's commercial income that it's not even worth mentioning.

shipinabottle · 20 Jul 2016 at 15:57

BaZ87 said:
I didn't say anybody they did The link was to show the profit a club makes on shirt sales and just how many shirts are actually sold following MissChief's post.

That said, again, the stuff about marketing potential and shirt sales is exaggerated bulll****! It gets brought up time and time again and it's a load of ****. 99.9% of the decision to pay £100m for Pogba or pay Rooney £300k per week is football related. Individual players make such a small difference to a club like Utd's commercial income that it's not even worth mentioning.

Give me some kind of evidence that says clubs will willingly spend X on a player with only 0.1% thought to the return they'll bring?

Clubs would be crippled with that idea in mind. Where do you think this 100million is brought from? The brand of united, it's past achievements and players which draw sponsorship. This is what Pogba will play a part into. Any future sponsorship draw.

BaZ87 · 20 Jul 2016 at 16:03

shipinabottle said:
Give me some kind of evidence that says clubs will willingly spend X on a player with only 0.1% thought to the return they'll bring?

Clubs would be crippled with that idea in mind. Where do you think this 100million is brought from? The brand of united, it's past achievements and players which draw sponsorship. This is what Pogba will play a part into. Any future sponsorship draw.

You answered the question yourself. Utd are bigger than Pogba or Rooney. If and when they leave (Pogba has to sign first) Utd will push somebody elses face into the limelight and they'll be the new star just like when Beckham left and Ronaldo left. Those 2 are/were far bigger stars than Rooney or Pogba ever will be yet Utd's commercial revenue continued to grow after they were sold and if Rooney was sold it would be no different too.

These players are being signed to make Utd successful on the pitch because it's that which creates Utd's brand that is then sold to sponsors.

With the exception of a small side signing a big name player or signing a big Chinese or Indian player where a club will be looking to target a untapped market, the signing of individual players has little to no difference to commercial income.

shipinabottle · 20 Jul 2016 at 16:14

BaZ87 said:
You answered the question yourself. Utd are bigger than Pogba or Rooney. If and when they leave (Pogba has to sign first) Utd will push somebody elses face into the limelight and they'll be the new star just like when Beckham left and Ronaldo left. Those 2 are/were far bigger stars than Rooney or Pogba ever will be yet Utd's commercial revenue continued to grow after they were sold and if Rooney was sold it would be no different too.

These players are being signed to make Utd successful on the pitch because it's that which creates Utd's brand that is then sold to sponsors.

With the exception of a small side signing a big name player or signing a big Chinese or Indian player where a club will be looking to target a untapped market, the signing of individual players has little to no difference to commercial income.

I feel like we're arguing the same point from different sides.

Pogba will be part of the brand of united for the future. A big part.

Just as Ronaldo and Rooney were a big part of the United brand which maintained the momentum from the 90s squad.

They are everything for marketing.

Nate75 · 20 Jul 2016 at 16:19

Depay is a huge marketing asset - he won't be going anywhere soon either tbh

BaZ87 · 20 Jul 2016 at 16:20

shipinabottle said:
I feel like we're arguing the same point from different sides.

Pogba will be part of the brand of united for the future. A big part.

Just as Ronaldo and Rooney were a big part of the United brand which maintained the momentum from the 90s squad.

They are everything for marketing.

Well my initial point was in reference to people continually saying x will pay back his fee in shirt sales etc etc, which is nonsense.

And I'm not sure we're really arguing the same point either. It doesn't matter who the players are - Utd are bigger than any player - as long as Utd are successful on the pitch then the brand will be flogged around the world.

The players are being signed so the club is successful not because having x will attract new sponsors because they won't unless the club is winning. I've said before, it's not a coincidence that Utd have found their wallet as soon as the club has stopped being successful.

Jano · 20 Jul 2016 at 16:22

I can't help but think 100m is totally ridiculous. He's not that good from what I've seen, certainly not going to turn them from being top 6 to title contenders. I'd be more inclined to offer the 100m to Real for Ronaldo, I'd say that's worth it for the 3-4 years he has left at the top level, and surely Real would at least think about it given his age.

Newbfail · 20 Jul 2016 at 16:28

its the potential, in 3 or 4 years Messi and Ronaldo will be gone and Pogba has a very good chance of being the best player on the planet by then, his potential is massive, he can literally do everything on a pitch, no weak areas.

antijoke · 20 Jul 2016 at 16:35

Exorcise said:
its the potential, in 3 or 4 years Messi and Ronaldo will be gone and Pogba has a very good chance of being the best player on the planet by then, his potential is massive, he can literally do everything on a pitch, no weak areas.

Looking at his stats it looks like his weak area is scoring goals. £100 million for a player who hasn't scored more than 10 goals a season.....lol.

BaZ87 · 20 Jul 2016 at 16:38

With that thinking we've been had paying £5m for Karius, he's never scored a goal in his career!

fez · 20 Jul 2016 at 16:42

£100m for Ronaldo would just be retarded as well. He is likely to start picking up injuries more easily as he ages, isn't half the player he was and wouldn't cut it in the PL anymore. The Spanish league is like a playground for the top teams who just demolish 90% of the sides they face. Ronaldo is now more of a goal poacher than anything else. Yes he is a very good goal poacher but he won't unlock defences and scare them with his runs.

Jano · 20 Jul 2016 at 16:43

Exorcise said:
its the potential, in 3 or 4 years Messi and Ronaldo will be gone and Pogba has a very good chance of being the best player on the planet by then, his potential is massive, he can literally do everything on a pitch, no weak areas.

I just don't see it. He's not the type of player who is going to do what Messi and Ronaldo do and completely change a game by himself. He's not capable of taking on 3-4 players and scoring out of nothing. He's a decent midfielder, don't get me wrong, but I could probably list 10 players id rather have.

antijoke · 20 Jul 2016 at 17:01

BaZ87 said:
With that thinking we've been had paying £5m for Karius, he's never scored a goal in his career!

You expect defenders to score goals regularly do you?

I am basing it off the fact you always hear pundits saying midfield players should be contributing goals to the team.

BaZ87 · 20 Jul 2016 at 17:06

anticonscience said:
You expect defenders to score goals regularly do you?

I am basing it off the fact you always hear pundits saying midfield players should be contributing goals to the team.

He's a keeper and I wasn't being entirely serious

You can't judge a midfield player's value on how many goals he scores. Graeme Souness is Liverpool's greatest ever midfielder and quite possibly the best midfielder to play in England in the last 40 years and the most he ever scored in a season was 13 goals.